Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Started the "new" engine last Wednesday, put it in "Drive" and it moved !

Been over three months of on and off work to :

1/ Build another engine ( running 11:1 compression )
2/ Put an A44DE Automatic in, trans cooler etc. ( OD, 4 speed with lockup )
3/ Put in a Vitara transfer case with 4.3 gears.
4/ Change tailshafts and pinion flanges ( Vitara / Hilux )
5/ Different engine mounts, tcase mounts and torque control mount
6/ New rear crossmember
7/ Drill tcase output shafts to allow for a slip yoke eliminator ( later )

The autos out again being overhauled as its history was unknown, but hopefully thats only a week or so.

Will be very interesting too see how it goes, crawl ratio is over 60:1 ( forgotten exactly ) without the converter - and of course much higher with.... ( 150+ ).

Still plenty of work to do - the hole in the floor for the shifter / transfer lever is most unattractive, fit transmission computer etc etc etc , but the end of the serious stuff is finally in sight.

Now what to do about the front diff ?

That's good news. Getting closer

MightyMouse wrote:

Now what to do about the front diff ?

Wonder if you could get an IFS Hilux front diff in there? I know that they have been put in a Vit. It would allow you to run a locker and match the rear R&P as well as giving you another diff ratio option.

Well done, MightyMouse.

I must've missed it, but what are your ultimate plans for your beasty?
Daily Driver, Weekend Warrior, Mini Comp Truck?

Surprisingly a 100 series front diff is just about the same size and of course can get a locker and high pinion 5.285 crownwheel and pinion. "The leg" side is a bit on an issue however as there's no immediately obvious place for the inboard CV.

Having the leg on the diff might cause possible CV issues as the Feroza diff has the inner CV's straight on the housing and with the extra travel just about reaches the safe CV angle limits already

Its all a bit expensive too - the rear toyota crownwheel and pinion was $500 and the front would be the same or more as its an import job. Makes for a reasonably unbreakable rear however.

Matt ( TT Drivelines ) is still muttering under his breath about doing a front locker from scratch -although I suspect he wont want to see it back for awhile.

Thanks daRangie - at several points I was a bit browned off by the challenges, but its a weekend warrior pure and simple. The Suzuki club runs great trips and whilst its not a rockcrawler, I hope to be able to tackle some of the rougher stuff

Thers' still a thousand "little" things to do like make up a new transfer shifter housing to get the transfer lever pivot point up into the cab.

Still its close, and I might finally get time to finish the supercharged engine that been sitting in bits in the workshop for around two years now.

What am I thinking - just drive it.........

Well done Ross!

Mind you 11.0:1 compression

Steve.

Yeah - the only pistons I had that were in good condition and not already spoken for. Thats one of the advantages of the CB70, CB80, HC, HD, HE series engines, If you know whats going on you can create some interesting combinations.
The crank, rods and head are HE with HC pistons and cam. Rest of the bits are HD.

As this is a "temporary" engine, I didn't want to spend real $$, for which I will no doubt be duly punished. Temporary seems to be until it dies nowadays. I think I smell Hi Octane fuel......

Still "squish" is a strange thing, the stockies are flat tops and can cause weird combustion effects whereas the "new" ones are very pent with substantial valve reliefs.

Plan to use the COP system off the blown engine to control timing - gives me a chance to get some of the tuning right without the nightmare of doing spark and fuel at the same time.

Wow, that's a lot of work, well done. I think it's time for some pics

MightyMouse wrote:Plan to use the COP system off the blown engine to control timing - gives me a chance to get some of the tuning right without the nightmare of doing spark and fuel at the same time.

What is a COP system? With 11:1 compression, you're a game man.

Just out of interest Ross, i thought Feroza's like to run a bit hot even stock... 11.0:1 would have to be an even bigger challenge if I'm right with the heat thing... no?

COP - coil over plug (or coil pack) am I right Ross?

Steve.

COP = "Coil on Plug", using modified Mitsu 380 as they have inbuilt driver electronics and throw an impressive spark.

And yes the stock cooling system can be an issue ( thermostat in bottom of block in cold water intake is odd / dumb IMO).

However as usual its not stock... thermostat moved to head discharge and three row radiator fitted - pulley ratios also changed as water speed was too high.

A big mechanical fan would be nice, but the blower drive clashed with that plan so it has to stay electric.

MightyMouse wrote:COP = "Coil on Plug", using modified Mitsu 380 as they have inbuilt driver electronics and throw an impressive spark.

Interesting, so what will you be controlling the timing with?

How hard was it to moved the thermostat? Did you have to block anything off in the block to do it- doesn't the standard thermostat close an inlet/ outlet in the block when it fully opens?

Not the first to run 11:1 in an HD(ish) engine, but am a little apprehensive to tell the truth - timing will be critical

Will be a Megasquirt, ( note will as in future )

looked at the Silicon chip unit seriously and its seems good ( uses dissy ) but as the intercooler discharge goes behind the engine the dissy eventually has to go anyway. So seemed to be $$ wasted.

However for a stock(ish) Feroza would be very usefull

Also not clever to play with new spark and fuel tables at the same time- too many possible oops's

At the block end - just remove the thermostat - I couldnt see any other passages ( but now you have me worried - will check on another block tonight ) at the head end machined up a housing from billet for half the housing used a Datsun 180B(?) part as the other half - its the harder one to make as its a 90 deg bend. Basically replaces the existing rubber elbow out of the rear of the head. Think the water pipe had to be shortened a little as well but mine is already back the front etc etc to clear the blower mount.

Looked at a couple of "spare" blocks - there doesn't appear to be any other passages from the thermostat housing, so I think i am in the clear.

As a general observation - with the thermostat in the bottom of the block there was a temperature differential of almost 30 degree across the block/head - with the head being the hottest ( obviously ).

Perhaps thats why the little darlings love a good ping......

And.....

even though it got really hot and was pinging really badly when the water pump belt went on holidays there was no sign of piston crown damage. The pistons fitted like a nut in a baked bean can but it wasn't in fantastic condition when I got it.

hey M/M not sure if you have sorted your running gear issues,but for the front you have many cheaper options than 100 series
eg-the import prado has 3link coil frnt end,& 4.88 fit them,they are the same width as fouruner or surf 5link coil rear,& theres millions of em around
the 5.2 centres fit but I have found them a little week,& with biger H/Power
I have gone through 3 x 4.88 crown wheels & pinions(thus why im now instaling GU runninggear) but with factory flares the toyo surf combo arnt much wider than feroza, bunderia came out with 3link coil front & rear,i found the 3link rear travel not as good as 5link,but twice as good as leef & bunderias are 20mm skinnier each side (roughly) than surf,but geting harder to find

M/M is still IFS, but a fair bit wider than stock Feroza (even widetrack)

I think the cost is in the 5.29 R&P to A) match stock feroza road gearing and B) match the hiace/hilux rear.

but with the 4 speed auto and 'charger (eventually) you micht be right, M/M could go to a taller diff gear an still be viable.

Steve.

Thanks for the advice Piglet, Steves right, I am IFS but much w i d e r...
and with more travel. Looking to stay with the 5.285 rear ( but its a hiace/hilux creation - air locked ) as so far it works well ( IMO ) and was a reasonably large task, so its got lots of emotion invested in it.

Would love to move to a higher diff ratio, ( 5.9 rings a bell ) but the cost is an issue. With the auto, diffs etc etc 100k is around 3100, which if I can get enough torque is a good cruising RPM for longer trips.

Its a compromise between road RPM and offroad ratios ( where O where have we heard this story before..... ) and I like IFS for its driveability and suppleness.

"Don't talk to me about logic - I'm stuck in irrational mode" ( joke - sort of ).

I thinks it's a 5.71 ratio (40/7 R&P tooth count) but some refer to them as a 5.79

P.S I think they were a Hi Ace ratio.

hey M/M sounds like you have spent plenty of hrs on it,when will we see pics
cheers piglet

OK..... after a bit of a false start with the auto, I can now say its driveable.

Actual compression was 11.3:1 and it was not overly happy when it warmed up - even on "rocket fuel" but here's the strange thing, dropped its compression to 10.25:1 and its just won't ping no matter what I do with the timing. Currently has 10 deg more static advance that stock. In fact i have run out of movement on the distributor.

Just shows you how sensitive some engines are to combustion chamber / piston crown shape.

In fact it has me a bit worried, Feroza's are supposed to ping, but I just can't find anything that isnt as it should be. Going to put it on the dyno and do some more testing. Wont do any "power" runs as the motor is still too new.

So now to do some k's in it to see what goes wrong next.

I'll look forward to seeing this beast when I come down to Melbourne in January. You better have it going by then or else.

Stu

If its not still going in January you will probably get an invite to my wake.

A couple of times it came close to "being all to hard" but I hate not finishing what I start. I think thats code for stubborn and pig headed - essential qualities for the Feroza driver.

P.S. reduction gears are cool - even if its only in the driveway.