Outer Limits 4x4 Board

why is it snake & bbm both want $230 for there droped front cross member for a hilux yet superior do the same part for $160 and many otha parts are the same story. i am in syd and dont have a credit card so cant just order it online off superior. is this the price i pay for not having a credit card. or do superior have a reseller in sydney??? or is there sum1 im not thinking of?

get one of those bebo pre paid credit cards, or ring superior and see if they'll do direct deposite.

I guess its all relative, these guys aren't rippin you off, the cost of living in Sydney is higher than in QLD. You get what you pay for and when you think about the time saved by purchasing this crossmember of either of these guys rather than fabbing it up yourself.

You didn't ring us to see what we'll do one for.

I learned my lesson long ago with buying 4by parts here (in oz), the mark up is bull shit. I save alot of money by doing everthing my self and sourcing parts from the states. Just an example my latest saving, I bought a pair of high steer arms(billet) direct from sky manufacturing for
$320 AUD landed to my doorstep, where the cheapest I could find a pair here was $600 saving of $280!!. And that goes for just about any other part u can think of, cut the middle men out and buy direct.
But it is easier with a credit card.

just something to think about

Hey there Big Lux

While i agree with you that some outlets at times charge a fortune for a captive market, here is not the place to insinuate charges of ripping off or scalping. It's a relatively small community and you never know when you might need some help. Regarding high prices, if they really are that high compared to others then natural business selection will ensure that they don't stay in business too long.

While i too am normall inclined to call a spade a spade, as mentioned there may be other reasons for the price difference.

My two cents from experience.

sloshy wrote:I learned my lesson long ago with buying 4by parts here (in oz), the mark up is bull shit. I save alot of money by doing everthing my self and sourcing parts from the states. Just an example my latest saving, I bought a pair of high steer arms(billet) direct from sky manufacturing for
$320 AUD landed to my doorstep, where the cheapest I could find a pair here was $600 saving of $280!!. And that goes for just about any other part u can think of, cut the middle men out and buy direct.
But it is easier with a credit card.

just something to think about

This is the exact reason that many local businesses go BUST, people trying to save a buck and don't think about the local bloke who is doing it tough because people don't wish to support the Aussie battler. By local and keep Aussies employed.

Does the average person buying 4wd parts locally think the suppliers are making a motza??

MitchellBros4x4 wrote:This is the exact reason that many local businesses go BUST, people trying to save a buck and don't think about the local bloke who is doing it tough because people don't wish to support the Aussie battler. By local and keep Aussies employed.

I agree it's good to support Australian businesses but you can't seriously expect people to pay double just because something's local, if Sloshy's example is correct. If someone sets up a business relying on people to support them because they're Australian then I think that is probably not getting off to a good start.

I also agree it's not a question of ripping people off though. There's virtually nothing you buy retail that isn't marked up at least 60 percent.

My guess is that a lot of the competition is in "supply and fit", not just "supply", and a lot of the ones who are not competitive in "supply" only are actually making their money from a more complete service anyway... but I could be wrong. What do you reckon?

big lux wrote:why is it snake & bbm both want $230 for there droped front cross member for a hilux yet superior do the same part for $160 and many otha parts are the same story. i am in syd and dont have a credit card so cant just order it online off superior. is this the price i pay for not having a credit card. or do superior have a reseller in sydney??? or is there sum1 im not thinking of?

what are the shipping costs like ?
Are they the same, one mayhave alot more work in it, perhaps a better fit and finish.
One may keep a stock of these on hand tp ship to you smae day the order comes in, others may drop ship from someone elses warehouse and have no control over delivery times .. there are dozens of reasons why the prices could be different.

i havnt realy had many things fitted i do all my work myself. bot the cost of living and so on realy cnt be that different or syd wuld be vacant land. i learnt the name lesson about cutting the middle man i did a diff swap recently and needed custom u bolts. rang unnamed shop yea no prob $160 for custom u bolts. 4 of. so tried supplier yea no worries 77$ including gst. lesson learnt saving 50% anybody needs there name pm me big for them.

MitchellBros4x4 wrote:

sloshy wrote:I learned my lesson long ago with buying 4by parts here (in oz), the mark up is bull shit. I save alot of money by doing everthing my self and sourcing parts from the states. Just an example my latest saving, I bought a pair of high steer arms(billet) direct from sky manufacturing for
$320 AUD landed to my doorstep, where the cheapest I could find a pair here was $600 saving of $280!!. And that goes for just about any other part u can think of, cut the middle men out and buy direct.
But it is easier with a credit card.

just something to think about

This is the exact reason that many local businesses go BUST, people trying to save a buck and don't think about the local bloke who is doing it tough because people don't wish to support the Aussie battler. By local and keep Aussies employed.

Does the average person buying 4wd parts locally think the suppliers are making a motza??

As chimpboy said, if you were paying a few bucks extra many people would support Aussie Business more, but with teh example given I don't know many who would pay double to help n Aussie.

If teh US can make them at half price than here, maybe you guys should import them from teh same people and put a modest margin on them and pass on.

Also you might sell more stuff if the ebay link on your webpage worked

MitchellBros4x4 wrote:

sloshy wrote:I learned my lesson long ago with buying 4by parts here (in oz), the mark up is bull shit. I save alot of money by doing everthing my self and sourcing parts from the states. Just an example my latest saving, I bought a pair of high steer arms(billet) direct from sky manufacturing for
$320 AUD landed to my doorstep, where the cheapest I could find a pair here was $600 saving of $280!!. And that goes for just about any other part u can think of, cut the middle men out and buy direct.
But it is easier with a credit card.

just something to think about

This is the exact reason that many local businesses go BUST, people trying to save a buck and don't think about the local bloke who is doing it tough because people don't wish to support the Aussie battler. By local and keep Aussies employed.

Does the average person buying 4wd parts locally think the suppliers are making a motza??

Im all for local business, but if I can save even $20 bucks Ill go elsewhere
such as life

chimpboy wrote:

MitchellBros4x4 wrote:This is the exact reason that many local businesses go BUST, people trying to save a buck and don't think about the local bloke who is doing it tough because people don't wish to support the Aussie battler. By local and keep Aussies employed.

I agree it's good to support Australian businesses but you can't seriously expect people to pay double just because something's local, if Sloshy's example is correct. If someone sets up a business relying on people to support them because they're Australian then I think that is probably not getting off to a good start.

I also agree it's not a question of ripping people off though. There's virtually nothing you buy retail that isn't marked up at least 60 percent.

My guess is that a lot of the competition is in "supply and fit", not just "supply", and a lot of the ones who are not competitive in "supply" only are actually making their money from a more complete service anyway... but I could be wrong. What do you reckon?

The whole support local thing hits the fan when you consider a certain Aussie owned locker is cheaper to buy from the states... but thats a whole nother shite fite.

Basically, shop owner is out there to make $$, if I'm in a bind, their not going to help me out (talking about any shop here) so why should I spend more on the same product if I can get it cheaper elsewhere

GO TALK TO HI TECH 4X4 IN PENRITH THEY DEAL WITH SUPERIOR SHOULD GET IT NEXT TO COST. HAVE BOUGHT MANY THINGS THROUGH THEM

Superior do cash on delivery now, i bought a heap of stuff the other week. got my stuff in a week and very good to deal with much better than my dealings with snake. but that could hav been a one off wit snake took over a month ! just my experience

The reason gear from the States is cheaper is because their income and cost of living is a lot lower than here and their turnover is hundreds of times higher than here.
I'll guarantee half the gear bought from the states is made by cheap slave labour in Asia anyway, just like half the gear the big three here in Australia sell.
Not saying its poor quality but you still pay premium prices, their profit margin is just bigger.
Steel is also cheaper overseas than here, even though we mine it here and sell them the ore, they can refine it cheaper than us.

Go the locals!!! Support home grown I say, its not always more expensive.

big lux wrote:bot the cost of living and so on realy cnt be that different or syd wuld be vacant land.

You are kidding yourself if you believe this... $500k buys you a portaloo in shitney... $500k in qld buys you 5br house with the works .. pretty much like your price for parts in aust to usa...


As for the support the local bloke with his double priced parts, you would be a fool to pay double... Dont they teach commerce at school anymore? is it to just get the warm and fuzzys...?

you dont need a credit card to buy from superior, ive ordered from them, they just gave me their bank details and i deposited the money.

Interesting thread .. keeping in mind just today I was noticed ( By ARB USA ) 5% new increase in all ARB/OME pricess .. ( for us in USD ) it's the 4 time prices rise in this year ..



steel prices growing .. and not much other options outside.

bogged wrote:

big lux wrote:bot the cost of living and so on realy cnt be that different or syd wuld be vacant land.

As for the support the local bloke with his double priced parts, you would be a fool to pay double... Dont they teach commerce at school anymore? is it to just get the warm and fuzzys...?

Think what the prices will do if more and more suppliers go bust. I realise that there will always be another supplier, but, think about the guy round the corner and his family and livelyhood and don't support the yanks and their GDP.

MitchellBros4x4 wrote:

bogged wrote:

big lux wrote:bot the cost of living and so on realy cnt be that different or syd wuld be vacant land.

As for the support the local bloke with his double priced parts, you would be a fool to pay double... Dont they teach commerce at school anymore? is it to just get the warm and fuzzys...?

Think what the prices will do if more and more suppliers go bust. I realise that there will always be another supplier, but, think about the guy round the corner and his family and livelyhood and don't support the yanks and their GDP.

Its not about supporting the Yanks its about trying to support ourselves..With the cost of living in Australia its making having a house,family and toys unreachable...So if i can save money on my toy by buying overseas i will and if i dont then the toy go's then i lose out and the stuff i do by from Oz well they lose out to...

Its a visciuos circle the buyer is trying to save a buck and the local business guy is tryin to make a buck.

Tapage wrote:Interesting thread .. keeping in mind just today I was noticed ( By ARB USA ) 5% new increase in all ARB/OME pricess .. ( for us in USD ) it's the 4 time prices rise in this year ..



steel prices growing .. and not much other options outside.

Australian Dollar is much stronger against the green back so prices will of course rise in the US

As to the not having a credit card earlier mentioned, you can get VISa direct debit cards that work straight from your savings account. Not sure if all banks do them but the big guys do

MitchellBros4x4 wrote:Think what the prices will do if more and more suppliers go bust. I realise that there will always be another supplier, but, think about the guy round the corner and his family and livelyhood and don't support the yanks and their GDP.

I do hear what your saying and I do hate yanks probably more than everyone else on here added together.. but if I need to buy 5 things and can save $200 each, thats money I can spend on my kids/hobbys/daily planet etc. 1000 in my pocket is a lot of bux.

if its $20-50 difference, then yea theres a chance depending on item.

why is it snake & bbm both want $230 for there droped front cross member for a hilux yet superior do the same part for $160

Easy, Superoir make one part and sell it for $160. Snake makes another and sells his for $230. They're not the same part. They're not made by the same people. BBM don't currently manufacture one, we resell the snake crossmember at his recomended price.
If we decide to manufacture a similar part in the future (we're getting in manufacturing more) our price will be higher- I want to incorporate a couple of extra features that solve some issues, that'll cost more to make.

I don't know of any 4wd parts retailer that charges extra for credit card (some may refuse amex or diners) A lot of guys dont want to do COD because theres always some clown who doesn't know his own address, changes his mind or cant get act together...it comes back and costs the seller more dollars.

There's virtually nothing you buy retail that isn't marked up at least 60 percent.

Really???? 60%!!! F@# Me! IGonna get me solid gold spitoon! I recken theres only 4 items in our entire store with more than 60% in them- and thats gross- factor in those four items are manufactured in bulk- send tens of thousands of dollars away and get your stock in 4 months, then its up to twelve months to get your dollars back! Average GROSS is around 28% You've still got costs to come out that.
If it's an ARB or TJM product you can half that. If its tyres devide by three. Not saying we're not all there to make money, but it sure as hell aint 60%
How many 4wd shops go bust? Fargin heaps.

Cost of living is pretty much the same in the states, cost of cars /parts etc looks cheap, but their wages are lower, hours longer, only two weeks holidays a year, health insurance blah blah blah...comes out pretty close.

if I'm in a bind, their not going to help me out

Hang about, most shops have a heap of guys using there tools, trailers etc after hours, get called out to retrieve people and are only too happy to sponsor all the comps that are on...isn't that helping out? They're happy to expalin how shit works, how to fix your stuff, and recomend where to get a good deal. Do you think 4wd stores really want to spend their days diagnosing mystery noises over the phone? Personally I've lost count of the number of weekends and nights I've spent fixing other peoples stuff, recken I've pressed in at least 40 sets of bushes, cut a hundred snorkel holes and other jobs to stop customers from making a mess of it. Generally our customers are a pretty cool bunch, so you really don't mind doing stuff for them. Stangely there doesn't seem to be anyone here helping me dig up my driveway this arvo...I'm sure rick will point out that thats because I'm a a@#$hole.

x2 x3 x4

How I would love to be making 60% on any items.

We also don't mind to help people out where we can, come and open up on Sunday, recover people who get stuck out the back of bumsville and because they went out on their own have no-one else to help, we also offer 10% discount to 4wd club members and when we are a 10% profit business, what does that leave??? I don't know too many people who go out of their way to help anyone these days.

Support Australian Owned Australian Made

clothing/ footwear is where the big markups are, i'm a customs broker and know what some companies are paying for stuff ! A $10 pair of sneakerss cost you $160 in the shops. The US has a huge local market so their stuff is cheaper as they move more and the ARB/ OME gear is probably imported into the US duty free due to the US free trade agreement coupled with a stronger currency, therefor still cheaper for us to buy from the us than local.

ARB/ OME gear is probably imported into the US duty free due to the US free trade agreement coupled with a stronger currency, therefor still cheaper for us to buy from the us than local.

But if it's made in thailand then ARB still has to pay import duties, the US still is a very protected market.

clothing/ footwear is where the big markups are, i'm a customs broker and know what some companies are paying for stuff ! A $10 pair of sneakerss cost you $160 in the shops.

your assuming the cost declared is the real cost.
With shoes especially the cost of goods is only a tiny part of the equation. The real cost involves buying space in stores, promotions, massive advertising and sponsorship budgets. As in the record/ magazine/ book industry the companies send out the stock knowiing that a fair amount will come back and have to be dumped below it's true cost.
The factory in china didn't just grow there, someone ponyed up the bucks to build it. This is't reflected in the $10. If it's the companies own there's no way the cost declared is the true cost, not many people would voluntarily pay more tax than they need to. If it's not theres and they buy enough stock they'd be in a position to pay less for the shoes and make up the rest as "advertising contribution" or similar, again keeping the declared amount to as low as possible, paying less tax.

The US has a huge local market so their stuff is cheaper as they move more

It's also got a lot more players in the market, a lot more vehicles to cover, a lot more discounting and is very protected.

Liam wrote:

There's virtually nothing you buy retail that isn't marked up at least 60 percent.

Really???? 60%!!! F@# Me! IGonna get me solid gold spitoon! I recken theres only 4 items in our entire store with more than 60% in them- and thats gross- factor in those four items are manufactured in bulk- send tens of thousands of dollars away and get your stock in 4 months, then its up to twelve months to get your dollars back! Average GROSS is around 28% You've still got costs to come out that.

Yep, that is why I agree it's not rip-off mark-up rates.

In a previous life, I was a brand manager for a company that manufactured consumer products (fast-moving stuff in the $10-$60 range, not big-ticket stuff), and our mark-up from manufacturing cost to the wholesale price for retailers was 60-70%, although this was discounted for big retailers (and very discounted for Coles and Woolworths who basically dictate pricing). That was the TMC (total manufacturing cost, ie taking salaries, rent, everything into account). Then there was the mark-up from the wholesale price to the RRP on top of that. In effect, the price in a retail outlet would be roughly double what it cost to make the product even with all the overheads. "My" brand sold $21,000,000 a year, mind you we spent $1,300,000 on marketing alone and I actually got in trouble for not spending enough!

It's a totally different ballgame to what small businesses usually try to get by on.

But my point personally is not that I think local suppliers are ripping anyone off, it's just that if anyone asks me for my advice in business, it would be that if you can't compete on price then you had better be very competitive on quality and service, and even then you should be nervous. And if I were setting out to sell ANYTHING now, global price levels would need looking at, not just local ones.

4WD stuff is luxury stuff too, ie the first thing people stop spending on when times get tough. So if interest rates keep going up that would be a worry.

These are just my thoughts, I wish only the best for anyone who has taken the plunge and set up their own business. I know first hand it's not easy. One thing that I have found is very good is to focus on business customers, not retail customers, but I don't know if that would translate well to 4WD stuff.

Easy, Superoir make one part and sell it for $160. Snake makes another and sells his for $230. They're not the same part. They're not made by the same people. BBM don't currently manufacture one, we resell the snake crossmember at his recomended price.
If we decide to manufacture a similar part in the future (we're getting in manufacturing more) our price will be higher- I want to incorporate a couple of extra features that solve some issues, that'll cost more to make.

this coment is a very good point it if it was just this part i wuldnt have said anything but it seems to be across the board jus had a look for sumthing not manufactured found 1 selling rancho 5000 for $165 and the second selling them for $120 considering most would be buying 4of these your looking at $180 difference for the EXACT same thing.
not saying names im not here to get any1 off side just asking why is there this huge price difference?


And when it comes to getting things from the usa i think u can thank our little mate johny howard. i used be realy in2 db drag racing(car audio) i used 2 run only rockford fosgate gear nd i culd get the gear for less then half price landed on my door nd we r talking amps that retail over here 4 5k on my door for 2k i spoke 2 rockford here who evently sponsored me nd they say its all taxes ect they jus cant compete.

Liam wrote:

why is it snake & bbm both want $230 for there droped front cross member for a hilux yet superior do the same part for $160

Easy, Superoir make one part and sell it for $160. Snake makes another and sells his for $230. They're not the same part. They're not made by the same people. BBM don't currently manufacture one, we resell the snake crossmember at his recomended price.
If we decide to manufacture a similar part in the future (we're getting in manufacturing more) our price will be higher- I want to incorporate a couple of extra features that solve some issues, that'll cost more to make.

I don't know of any 4wd parts retailer that charges extra for credit card (some may refuse amex or diners) A lot of guys dont want to do COD because theres always some clown who doesn't know his own address, changes his mind or cant get act together...it comes back and costs the seller more dollars.

There's virtually nothing you buy retail that isn't marked up at least 60 percent.

Really???? 60%!!! F@# Me! IGonna get me solid gold spitoon! I recken theres only 4 items in our entire store with more than 60% in them- and thats gross- factor in those four items are manufactured in bulk- send tens of thousands of dollars away and get your stock in 4 months, then its up to twelve months to get your dollars back! Average GROSS is around 28% You've still got costs to come out that.
If it's an ARB or TJM product you can half that. If its tyres devide by three. Not saying we're not all there to make money, but it sure as hell aint 60%
How many 4wd shops go bust? Fargin heaps.

Cost of living is pretty much the same in the states, cost of cars /parts etc looks cheap, but their wages are lower, hours longer, only two weeks holidays a year, health insurance blah blah blah...comes out pretty close.

if I'm in a bind, their not going to help me out

Hang about, most shops have a heap of guys using there tools, trailers etc after hours, get called out to retrieve people and are only too happy to sponsor all the comps that are on...isn't that helping out? They're happy to expalin how shit works, how to fix your stuff, and recomend where to get a good deal. Do you think 4wd stores really want to spend their days diagnosing mystery noises over the phone? Personally I've lost count of the number of weekends and nights I've spent fixing other peoples stuff, recken I've pressed in at least 40 sets of bushes, cut a hundred snorkel holes and other jobs to stop customers from making a mess of it. Generally our customers are a pretty cool bunch, so you really don't mind doing stuff for them. Stangely there doesn't seem to be anyone here helping me dig up my driveway this arvo...I'm sure rick will point out that thats because I'm a a@#$hole.

Couldnt agree more. Liam is right, most of our customers are cool folks who you are more than happy to help out. And yes, Liam is an a$$hole. Just ask me. I'll tell you.

The really funny thing is that most of the people who complain about how much things cost are the same people that complain they don't get paid enough.