Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I'm still looking at upgrading the diffs in my TJ (will reuse on 1 of my projects)....
The stock TJ WMS 2 WMS width is about 60", and I'd like to fit "fullsize" (ie GM or ford) which are about 69".....

So I'm just wondering what likely problems or issues I'd need to address to be able to run wider diffs....obviously I know the tyres still need to be covered - but what else????

Wooders wrote:I'm still looking at upgrading the diffs in my TJ (will reuse on 1 of my projects)....
The stock TJ WMS 2 WMS width is about 60", and I'd like to fit "fullsize" (ie GM or ford) which are about 69".....

So I'm just wondering what likely problems or issues I'd need to address to be able to run wider diffs....obviously I know the tyres still need to be covered - but what else????

N*A*M has a wide set, I'm sure he'd part with them.

You won't fit in the ruts anymore where you wheel.
Well Shane is having this issue and finds some of the sections of tracks we usually do are undriveable now

Get a C&C corporate 14 bolt rear end. 63" Wide. Shave it and you are done.
No selectable lockers for them yet though and the ratios will only go down to 5.13 or so. ARB is supposed to be releasing one this year some time.

Pirate4x4 is your friend with this sort of question.
Search around, look at billavistas tech articles and his bibles in D60's are corp 14 bolt.
Also chat to CJlagos as he runs full width along with many others.

Also email shane and chat to him as his HPD60's are around 63 or 65 I think. Can't remember now. He has plenty of info.

cheers

Z

Zach,

I'm mostly interested in beefing the front, but obviously would do the rear to match the width.
Budget is probably the most important factor right now (ie ProRocks, Rock Jocks etc are out).
POR has great info for fitting the diffs - but has no concern about road worthness and esp in Aust - which is again one of the prime factors.

My thoughts are there ARE vehicles out there eg F250 that run these wide axles & they are road legal - so what would need to be done to make another vehicle road legal with this width of axle??

Wooders

Anything is doable but after talking to you last night I am starting to think the easist way to do this is with a owner manufactured vehical and not a modded one

I would ring RTA and talk to the Tech advisers, I do this 3 times on different days then take the average of the advise your given as you will get 3 sets of advice, after that then write a letter to the RTA with a detailed plan asking for a ruling once you do that then you will need to get friendly with a RTA certified engineer

Any thing from the RTA you need in balck and smudge

what about using a set of GQ diffs. They are plentiful in Aus, strong enough, have lockers and gear ratios available. Just a thought.

grimbo wrote:what about using a set of GQ diffs. They are plentiful in Aus, strong enough, have lockers and gear ratios available. Just a thought.

Good idea, but I would recommend an 80 series set, the diff pumpkin (size wise) is a lot more efficient, and the rear is full float.

What side is the pumpkin in the TJ, passenger drop or drivers drop?

Area54 wrote:

grimbo wrote:what about using a set of GQ diffs. They are plentiful in Aus, strong enough, have lockers and gear ratios available. Just a thought.

Good idea, but I would recommend an 80 series set, the diff pumpkin (size wise) is a lot more efficient, and the rear is full float.

What side is the pumpkin in the TJ, passenger drop or drivers drop?

TJ = centred rear
Passenger side front.
like a ford!

ok you could get all technical on us but I thought they were offset like the Patrol

bj on roids wrote:

Area54 wrote:

grimbo wrote:what about using a set of GQ diffs. They are plentiful in Aus, strong enough, have lockers and gear ratios available. Just a thought.

Good idea, but I would recommend an 80 series set, the diff pumpkin (size wise) is a lot more efficient, and the rear is full float.

What side is the pumpkin in the TJ, passenger drop or drivers drop?

TJ = centred rear
Passenger side front.
like a ford!

Thats what I thought.

I'm not too fused which side the front is on....Infact I'd nearly prefer a drivers side drop because then I can install a gear driven Dana300 t/case instead of the crappy chain driven stocker.....Plus I think if it has a driver pumpkin it's easier to setup the 5link again.....

BTW I'm not adverse either Nissan or yota diffs - but if I'm going to this sorta hassle I'd prefer the strongest which will work for my application....
Wasn't there a list somewhere of relative strengths and also the wms2wms measurements???

My 60's are set up at 65.5" front and 64.5" rear... you can offset the width by using wheels with less offset. Mine are 4.75" backspacing on a 9.75" rim (R16.5) and 14.5" SX's.

Track width for me (outside of tyre to outside of tyre) is about 81" front and 80" rear I think.

As Z has mentioned, I barely squeeze into some of the real deep rutted trails around here now (for you VIC's, the deep trenches on Vic Ranges track at Toolangi are a major squeeze).

Other issues?? Bolt pattern... If you intend to keep your rear stock diff the bolt pattern will be different. Bolt pattern - any change you do will mean you need new wheels - doubt you will find a 5 on 4.5" diff that will suit your application (at best it would be 5 on 5.5).

Be a little careful on changing to a drivers side drop as you can interfere with the starter on a TJ (when the front end is fully compressed). I think 1tonTJ on POR did it though - may want to contact him.

If you go real wide and high or cross over steering, you may find that your drag link contacts the frame at the front... and the tie rod may contact as well.

Thanks for the info & tips mate.
I'll be moving away from the stock 5on4½ definately if I put new axles on - no drama other than I'll be sad to see my beadlocks go....
I'm aware of the starter problem - and I know of the "workaround"....I've been thinking of doing the driver drop change for a LONG time...the other problem is I'd need to re-route my exhaust.
As for the draglink/tie rod and chassis clearance - I'm aware that it can be a problem - but as I understood if I sacrafice some up travel it won't be an issue......but certainly this is one area of concern.....

BTW oh the reduced offset on the rims helps keep the track change reduced, but still increased - asside from covering the tyres was there any other specific issues you needed to address to be allowed the extra width?

Allowed the xtra width... hmmm... maybe I wasn't quite as concerned about being 'allowed' as you are mate

I know it is alot more strict in NSW. I didn't do any other major things that I can think of.

So what are the years and average price for a set of nissan or 80 series diffs?
And exactly what year/model to look for in each?
What width are they WMS to WMS?
Where are the pumpkins located?
What yokes do they use?
what unis are used on the diff end of the driveshaft?
what size tyres will they hold up to?
what bolt pattern are they?
Do they come in high pinion?
Are they easy to weld brackets, truss, mounting points onto?

what is the average cost for:
an air locker
a detroit
ratio changes
any other upgrades like Longfields or similar
lamination

thats all for now

you're an abalone

BTW can any one tell me the WMS2WMS measurment of the GQ or GU diffs?