Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I had a brain fart at around 1:00 am last night

Ive been trying to find a way of making sure my rear shockies never bottom or top out when off road whilst still retaining the shocks themselves.

I was going to run long shocks and an inverted shock setup (like this / \ ) with long shockies, but i would still have bottoming out issues and a bit of topout.

Then i thought of this.
What ya rekon?

Yeah look sweet not bagging you but i think you'd have to limit the amount the pivot can move Maybe a slot and pinned to allow Movement looking like this ( ) either side of the pivot point or even say another Pin above pivot point just to stop it Going past a desired point. Another thing say for a angle on a slope there is not much resitance to stop it from unloading the spring in a sense. Just throwing a few ideas out there.

no thats perfect mate!

a little constructive critism goes a long way.

thats a few things for me to think about

its till prototype and ill trial it and adjust it

thanx mate

one other advantage i see of this setup is as one shock goes up it will be pushing the other side down, helping the suspension to travel (i think)

I'm not sure if you know but the shock is needed to help keep the wheel under control when it spits a rock or hits a root even at slow speed, good shock control is very important in keeping traction, having the sea saw action eliminats the dampining of the shock at least from left to right making wheel spin or wheel hop a problem.
great idea, maybe it needs a shock horizontal to the diff controling the sea saw bar for off road still allowing good travel as not to bottom out.

Chad

professor wrote:I'm not sure if you know but the shock is needed to help keep the wheel under control when it spits a rock or hits a root even at slow speed, good shock control is very important in keeping traction, having the sea saw action eliminats the dampining of the shock at least from left to right making wheel spin or wheel hop a problem.
great idea, maybe it needs a shock horizontal to the diff controling the sea saw bar for off road still allowing good travel as not to bottom out.

Chad

I was thinking something similar you need a couple of smaller reasonably stiff shocks running abouve it to damp the seasaw motion of the bridge.

How much movement are you expecting to get out of the bridge ? 5cm, 10 cm

hell yeah professor thats exactly what i was thinking about seems a big undertaking now, but i still wanna do it.

Thanx alot mate

and same to everyone

edit:

almost needs someone to make a bolt on design one porfessor

wats the advantage?

cant bottom out the shox ever

and you dont need 1000 dollar foxes and hoops sticking out of your tray....

As to dampen it i was trying to think of a way to do it. Just read coments what about from center pivot point straght up and down now to that atatch a small shock this way - like what some camper trailers have to stop the brakes coming on and off to harsh if you have no idea i'll get a pic of one

yes pls

What about geting some 15.5" travel procomp shocks and mout them properly and be done with it. I like your way of thinking but it seems like a bit of work involved. What kind of suspension are you talking about that need that much shock length?

This is with 8" traval shocks and standard mounts

my thoughts are buy the right length shocks, and install them correctly and run bump stops and you will never bottom them out

Z()LTAN wrote:cant bottom out the shox ever

Yes you can. If you compress the rear of the car hard enough, you'll still bottom the shocks.

Just fit bumpstops that the axle hits 1" before the shocks bottom.

Your idea will make for a car tat behaves poorly under power on obstacles. You need shock absorbers. that's why they are there.

Do you really have 12+ inches of vertical travel? If so , then lower the bottom mounting point to level with the bottom of the axle tube and size your shocks appropriately.

Steve.

Correct measurements, with,
Correctly located mounts at the correct distance apart, with,
The correct length shock for your suspension setup complete with bump stops,
and the shock will never bottom out or be to short.

One other thing with your design if you let it pivot enough to give you the so called never bottom out effect it will bind on the shock and either bend the shock or bust it.

the whole point is that i dont want to have bumpstops taking away any flex.

Long shockies will make topout worse

ive already done the math and found ill need long ass shox with hoops above my tray to solve it and i dont want that.

just so you know, when you get a large shock, the rod dosnt just dissapear into the cansiter its still there and waiting to top out

Z()LTAN wrote:the whole point is that i dont want to have bumpstops taking away any flex.

How do bumpstops "take away flex?" If properly positioned, they generally increase flex by providing leverage to force the drooped wheel down.

Long shockies will make topout worse

I think you are confusing top out and bottom out. Long shocks reduce top out but increase bottoming out if fitted in the same mounts.

ive already done the math and found ill need long ass shox with hoops above my tray to solve it and i dont want that.

You did the math but can't see that what you have designed will still bottom the shocks unless you fit bumpstops? I think you aren't seeing the difference between travel and articulation. If you compress the suspension without bumpstops, you will still, even with your design, bottom the shocks and break stuff. You just will.

You could avoid this if you fit a central bumpstop above the diff centre, then you sill just have to deal with the crap drivability of no damping of side to side roll.

In any case, how much vertical travel do you actually have? When you "did the math" did you have you calculate shaft travel vs wheel travel? your shocks are laid over, so 12" travel shock might provide 14 or 16" of wheel movement.

How about trying the following experiment. Unbolt your rear shocks and go for a drive. If you like the feel of it off road, by all means keep going with your idea, because that's pretty much what it's going to feel like.

just so you know, when you get a large shock, the rod dosnt just dissapear into the cansiter its still there and waiting to top out

Yes, thanks for that, I may have understood that already

Z()ltan, some of the most knowledgeable people on this board about suspension are telling you its a bad idea and that you need bumpstops. Guts achieves massive wheel articulation out of his hilux with off the shelf OME N76 shocks (11" travel), nothing through the tray and $120 shocks. I think you should listen to these people.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:Guts achieves massive wheel articulation out of his hilux with off the shelf OME N76 shocks (11" travel), nothing through the tray and $120 shocks. I think you should listen to these people.

Steve.

These are too short in the front. I need about 12 inch travel shocks to get full down travel. The front is setup for the longer shocks to bolt in but I've just never bothered as I'm happy with what I have ATM.

The rear is now running long ranchos, I can't remember what length they are but I think they are the longest ones they did in the 9000 range. These are spot on for length.

Z()LTAN wrote:cant bottom out the shox ever

and you dont need 1000 dollar foxes and hoops sticking out of your tray....

what suspension setup do you have ?

Gwagensteve>

Youve got me all wrong... i am listening and im taking everything you all say into consideration

im just wanting to over engineer everything i do...

and do something a little different for fun.

ZOOK60>

THATS VERY INTERESTING!

Redzook>

Nothing special, SOA, parabolics, wide ass track and big tires... (lots of leverage)


I just want to do something different

you will have a very hard time limiting a 12 inch shock on the front with parabolics. on the rear if you work it out the longest rancho 9000 (15 inch) will measure a fair bit more on the angle. i dont recon youll be able to actually top out a 15 inch shock and if setup right you wont bottom it out either.

ZOOK60 wrote:

If you want a ramp queen great... be good to see it do a decent hill like that tho

yeah yeah alrighty...

i just wan to b different!

haha ill have a look at it all again

BadLux wrote:

ZOOK60 wrote:

If you want a ramp queen great... be good to see it do a decent hill like that tho

if done properly its not gonna be any weaker

also its still gettin perfect abosrbtion, just spread through the 2 shox

This might help explain my last post Obviously height's would need to come into play to make sure it all clears. and it's good to see someone thinking a bit different can sometimes pay off

yeah more or less the same as professors

alot of people off here think that just because your car can ramp awsome that it is unstable etc. it isnt that bad but ull cop shit for it if u do it.

chunderlicious wrote:alot of people off here think that just because your car can ramp awsome that it is unstable etc. it isnt that bad but ull cop shit for it if u do it.

No its more like, just because your rig can ramp huge doesn't mean it can preferm.

Zoltan, do you want a trail only rig or an all rounder?
If its a trail only rig then try it and if it works then woo hoo!!!!!!!!!!
If you want an all rounder that you can jump in and drive 1000kms in then I wouldn't bother wasting your time money and effort.

Remember thow with running a second shock on the lever your doubling the cost and in the long run you possibly be better off just spending the money on huge coil overs etc.

ZOOK60 wrote:

hey, is that the bigfoot or whatever it was called? the 80series that rolled last year?