Outer Limits 4x4 Board

whats the best mods to make an 80 series nelly unstapable in the bust ie suspentin engine ect

its a toyota mate just put some fuel in it and drive it

thanks rob

if you want sensible answers maybe ask in the toyota section.

how much do you have to spend and what kind of driving do you want to do, these will have a large bearing on what modifications you make. your first mod should include a winch and front bar to improve approach angle. then diff locks, then suspension and tyres. if you want to hit the rocks, you need big rubber, low gears, and compliant suspension. if you want to go good in mud or sand, you need a lot of power and suitable tyres.

where do you want to take it and how much do you want to spend, and which 80 do you have?

dumbdunce wrote:your first mod should include a winch

Brian, if it's going to be unstoppable why would he need a winch?

its a 1990 standard cruiser thinkin of putin a turbo on it its deisal and i was thinkn of ether 2" suspention and 2"body or just 4"suspention, 35s rock crawler gears winch and a frount locker. and custem bar work. mane driven i do is steep shale and rocky hill climbs and mudd!!!!! but also go up to nerrimin and tolingi and places like that as well. and money probaly 13000 max

Front bar, 2" suspension, 35's, lockers, winch, turbo, should keep you happy for a while (just fuck the std rear bar off if it causes you grief).

I don't think crawler gears are really that necessary in victoria, unless your running 37" or bigger rubber.

-Stu

-Scott- wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:your first mod should include a winch

Brian, if it's going to be unstoppable why would he need a winch?

you don't think having a method of propulsion completely indenpendant of the wheels enhances a vehicle's 'unstoppability'?

a winch should be the first modification to any 4WD if it is intended to be used in the bush.

-Scott- wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:your first mod should include a winch

Brian, if it's going to be unstoppable why would he need a winch?

He didnt say unstoppable, just "nelly" unstopable rememember.

Layto....

dumbdunce wrote:

-Scott- wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:your first mod should include a winch

Brian, if it's going to be unstoppable why would he need a winch?

you don't think having a method of propulsion completely indenpendant of the wheels enhances a vehicle's 'unstoppability'?

a winch should be the first modification to any 4WD if it is intended to be used in the bush.

I (respectfully) disagree. Decent suspension, tyres and traction (diff lock front & LSD rear) and I'm (nearly) unstoppable. I've never been winched.

Without a winch, it's never been an option. If I really wanted to get somewhere it's either try another line, road build, or find another route. In my (relatively limited) experience, I find a winch encourages the driver to break out the cable way too soon.

Don't drag it - drive it!

Scott

seriously if you think a twin locked 80 diffs arnt that strong your kidding yourself. Comparing to a twin locked pootrol here too.

An 80 and pootrol will do just as well as each other in most cases. cruisers just look better doin it, and you will be more comfortable to

Sum diff locks, a bit of lift and a winch you got a strong off road truck. Im pretty sure he aint after a comp truck.

-Scott- wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:

-Scott- wrote:

dumbdunce wrote:your first mod should include a winch

Brian, if it's going to be unstoppable why would he need a winch?

you don't think having a method of propulsion completely indenpendant of the wheels enhances a vehicle's 'unstoppability'?

a winch should be the first modification to any 4WD if it is intended to be used in the bush.

I (respectfully) disagree. Decent suspension, tyres and traction (diff lock front & LSD rear) and I'm (nearly) unstoppable. I've never been winched.

Without a winch, it's never been an option. If I really wanted to get somewhere it's either try another line, road build, or find another route. In my (relatively limited) experience, I find a winch encourages the driver to break out the cable way too soon.

Don't drag it - drive it!

Scott

You should not generalise and not expect to be challenged – how can you say that a winch encourages the driver to break out the cable way too soon? If you haven’t been winched then you need to try harder tracks!

I agree with Brian – a winch is a great piece of gear to get you or someone else out of trouble when you have a go at a hard line and not all goes to plan. In my experience, many people are put off trying harder tracks because they don’t have the “insuranceâ€

-Scott- wrote: I (respectfully) disagree. Decent suspension, tyres and traction (diff lock front & LSD rear) and I'm (nearly) unstoppable. I've never been winched.

let's compare on the same field here - I drive a twin locked turbo 80 with 5" of suspension lift and 35" tyres. I also have a winch that gets occasional use. I respectfully suggest that, speaking for the vehicles alone, the 80 is considerably more nelly unstoppable than the Paj.

Without a winch, it's never been an option. If I really wanted to get somewhere it's either try another line, road build, or find another route. In my (relatively limited) experience, I find a winch encourages the driver to break out the cable way too soon.

Don't drag it - drive it!

Scott

in light of the above, consider the following scenario: a few weeks ago, a group of 5 vehicles set out on what was supposed to have been a simple, family day trip on reasonably well formed forest tracks, with some walking to investigate some harder tracks off to the sides. the route in was all downhill, and became progressvely steeper, wetter and slipperier the further we went. we had what we thought was decent intel that the tracks (a) were easy (b) had other, easy escape options. meeting a local group halfway to the bottom (there was no way the lightly modified vehicles in our group were driving back in the way we had come), more intel suggested an escape route. upon investigation, the escape route turned out to be steeper, muddier and more rutted than the in track. one vehicle, another twin-locked, lifted 80 series on new 33" mud tyres, tears a sidewall on a rock, and later in the day, in a DEEP rut, blows another tyre off the bead. the entire wheel and tyre are under the surface of the mud. it is the first vehicle in the convoy. we have near stock vehicles to get up the track. If this vehicle had not been equipped with a self recovery winch, it would have been necessary to walk out and/or bring in another vehicle from the opposite direction. we really wanted to get somewhere. it was getting to the 'have to' stage, although a couple of nights in the bush wasn't going to kill anyone, it would certainly have been very inconvenient - I would have run out of nappies for my 22 month old daughter for starters. There was no other *driveable* line, although there was a safe line that could be winched. There is no option to road build in deep, soft muddy ruts. there was no other route available. winching really was the only viable option; it prevented extensive vehicle damage, minimised further track degradation, and saved conservatively 8 to 10 hours of one of the other more capable vehicles attempting to backtrack all the way around to be in front of the stuck truck, to attept a very risky snatch/tow recovery.


In my slightly more extensive experience, I have found a winch to be a great comfort, providing cheap insurance in very rough and/or remote terrain, and used correctly it minimises or completely negates vehicle damage from trying to drive lines the vehicle is not capable of, and significanly reduces track damage in soft, low traction situations.

to put it all another way, a winch is one of the very few modifications specifically installed to get you OUT of trouble. Most other modifications - suspension, wheels and tyres, traction enhancing devices (LSD, locker, traction control), gears etcetera, at the limit, will only put you further into the difficult stuff - if you're going to get into trouble with a whole load of go-further bits, that's exactly where you'll be when you get into trouble - further.

a fair analogy would be hot rodders who only build/modify their engine so the car goes faster, without doing anything to the brakes to make it stop better. more brakes is always good no matter how much power you have; more power is dangerous if the rest of the vehicle is not built to complement that power.

[/rant]

PS if I had a dollar for every winchless vehicle I've pulled out of a sticky situation in the bush over the years, man, I'd have about $11.50 by now

AlbyOne wrote:You should not generalise and not expect to be challenged – how can you say that a winch encourages the driver to break out the cable way too soon?

I don't expect to not be challenged. I make my statement because that's my experience - two tries, then winch out of a situation which is driveable.

Last month: Prado with a trailer stuck on a bend on a steep & loose climb. It was NOT going to go forward.

Chock trailer, disconnect, swap vehicles. Better tyres and a front diff lock and the trailer was at the top of the hill. If the Prado had a winch he would have used it - it wasn't needed.

AlbyOne wrote:If you haven’t been winched then you need to try harder tracks!

Possibly - but I get where I want to go, so does it matter?

AlbyOne wrote:I agree with Brian – a winch is a great piece of gear to get you or someone else out of trouble when you have a go at a hard line and not all goes to plan. In my experience, many people are put off trying harder tracks because they don’t have the “insuranceâ€

Brian, I'm not suggesting winches have no place in recreational 4wding. I'm suggesting a different set of priorities. I agree that your 80 series will run rings around my Paj when it comes to extreme 4wding. I will not undo a single modification to my Paj in exchange for a winch. (Well, maybe the six-stacker... )

Go bush with ONLY a winch and you'll probably need it. By your own admission, with the mods you have, you rarely need yours - and, when you do, it's often because OTHER vehicles aren't good enough. I'm not saying a winch is completely unnecessary - I'm suggesting other mods should come first.

so will 35s fit under a cruiser with only 2" suspention lift with no scrubbing and still have the flex?

tuff4runner wrote:so will 35s fit under a cruiser with only 2" suspention lift with no scrubbing and still have the flex?

sure will, you might require very slight massaging if anything at full flex, depending on the flex you get of course.

How to make a cruiser unstopable, the answer to this question is directionally proportional to the depth of your pockets.

Suspension, keep it as low as possible to run the tyre's you're happy to run. Allow $2,000 to run 35's

Tyres, some tyres work on rocks, some work in mud. Work out what you want to drive on then buy tyres. Allow $$2,500 for tyres and beadlocks

Gears, gearing will aid in vehicle control. Allow $??? for 80 series gears

Lockers, front and rear lockers will provide increased traction. $2,500 installed

Winch, for those times when you say "I can drive that" but you actually can't. Even for those odd trips when you're out on your own. $1,400 + bar if you don't already have one.

Most importantly allow for a MAJOR service and checkover by a good workshop to ensure everything else is up to the task and running well.

If you've got an 80 with lotsa gogo, lockers and 35's or up, you are going to need a set of longfields (CV's are like butter in those things). The best thing to do before any of the mods is make it tougher and more reliable. Why? cos when you do go and spend big bucks on mods, the thing will be harder to brake.
Otherwise get winch first, lockas second, tires third and then lift it. Thats about 10 grand ish, save the rest for repairs.

The best on road performance mod you will do is a turbo.
The best off road performance mod you will do is front and rear diff locks.

Without anything else these 2 will give the biggest performance upgrade out of anything else.

edit - I've just cleaned some crap out. Maybe I've deleted some that didn't need it and maybe I've left some that should go, stiff shit get over it, I am

to begin .. Muddies, lockers and a HAND winch, They are slow and hard work, but very reliable and totally invalueable ( You will never just decide to "winch it") and will make you pay more attention to picking your line.

If you are planing wheeling alone .. definately a winch .. if not, or not wheeling far from help .. lockers ..