Outer Limits 4x4 Board

will guy i need some help as i like the 350 chev but i like the 80 series turbo deisel

so what would you go???

1HD-T 80 series turbo diesel with intercooler all the way .. boots it up to 14 PSI and go happy trails !

atleast a 350chev.
forget the diesel

Jes

Nat84 wrote:will guy i need some help as i like the 350 chev but i like the 80 series turbo deisel

so what would you go???

first decide what you want the truck for.
then budget.
then diesel or petrol
Then man or auto

then decide if a short stroke 8 is enough

Dude, if you chev it you will be constantly doing stuff to it. Whether it's fixin it or modding it, this is when your car turns into a money pit !
I've found the chev thing to be bit of a sacrifice when you need to crawl up stuff..... Chevs (unless you change ratios, more $$$) don't like crawling, you have to rev em to make the car get up and boogy.
"If you want to rev it, chev it..." and then you will probably brake it....
The Yota petrols and especially diesels have pretty good low end grunt, I'd stick with one of these.

bad_religion_au wrote:then decide if a short stroke 8 is enough

theres a 502 on ebay.. $8800... but probably worth double the car

go the chev with a truck spec flywheel or similiar. More torque down low, where its needed

theres a white louieville pulling containers that has a petrol v8 in it. Man it sounds sweet as

I had a 308 in my 60, wasnt enough poke or torque. Then I stroked it to a 355, was better but a Chev would have been my choise if I had of done it again. Hmmm maybe a stroked Chev.....

I now have a turbo diesel 80 (auto) and just love it both on and off road. Its so controlled, torquey and awesome offroad. But dosent sound anything like a V8. I still miss the 8 but I love the stock factory driveline for reliability and working how it should.

Nat84 wrote:will guy i need some help as i like the 350 chev but i like the 80 series turbo deisel

so what would you go???

hehehehehe dad has a lovley 6.5 chev diesel there drop him some $$$ and rebuild it

and i still reacon it look better in my GQ

Cruza62 wrote:Dude, if you chev it you will be constantly doing stuff to it. Whether it's fixin it or modding it, this is when your car turns into a money pit !
I've found the chev thing to be bit of a sacrifice when you need to crawl up stuff..... Chevs (unless you change ratios, more $$$) don't like crawling, you have to rev em to make the car get up and boogy.
"If you want to rev it, chev it..." and then you will probably brake it....
The Yota petrols and especially diesels have pretty good low end grunt, I'd stick with one of these.

i think you may be mixing a chev with a mitsubishi.

when you put a chev in a truck, properly, you set it and forget it.

a small block has plenty enough bottom end torque for anything you throw at it. If you want more, change the cam. End of story.

when your injector pump and injectors need a rebuild on your toyo deisel, ring up your bank manager to approve a redraw on your home loan. For the price of a ip service you can buy another small block.

Jes

How about a 1fz 4.5 litre petrol toyota egine, these have good grunt.

bogged wrote:

Nat84 wrote:will guy i need some help as i like the 350 chev but i like the 80 series turbo deisel

so what would you go???

first decide what you want the truck for.
then budget.
then diesel or petrol
Then man or auto

i want it for long trips, towing, some hard core 4 wheeling etc etc

have no budget yet

i love the 80 series turbo deisel but yet i love the 350 chev so that is 50/50

would like to go turbo 700 box but that is more work so for know i'll put a 5 speed in

bogged wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:then decide if a short stroke 8 is enough

theres a 502 on ebay.. $8800... but probably worth double the car

i was looking at a 572 chev but i'll pass on that too much $$$

Nat84 wrote:

bogged wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:then decide if a short stroke 8 is enough

theres a 502 on ebay.. $8800... but probably worth double the car

i was looking at a 572 chev but i'll pass on that too much $$$

you just need a 502 with 502 hp.

it will have more torque than any engine just cranking over..hahahaha

http://www.eagleenginesmarine.com/new%2 ... 0502HP.htm

JEs

An outboard, coz its a land barge

now i'm not a chev basher. they're great for speedboats and cars. they are cheap, easy to get parts for, and can produce huge gobs of power.

but most i've driven do lack torque down low. in a 60, it's not about 1/4 mile times, but what sort of mumbo you can muster when you step on the pedal at 400rpm.

consider a long stroke 6 of some description. they won't make the outright HP of a chev v8, but they will lug a hell of a lot better.

if money isn't a huge deal, i 1FZ-FE out of an 80 would be my pick, hell there's a chance that you could do the swap just using factory tojo parts.

or if your after cheap and common, a falcon 4.1 crossflow 6 or one of the later 4.0's.

a 4.1 crossflow can be had running for under 100 bucks (generally with the rest of the car attached ) they love gas, they can produce awesome torque (there's one in a corty on gas that produces 1 000nm torque at 1800rpm over here in SA). easy to mod, and with 7 main bearings, a turbo won't overstress the crank.

If your gonna put a 250 in, you may aswell stick with a 2F

You'd ATLEAST put an EF or later 4l in

cloughy wrote:If your gonna put a 250 in, you may aswell stick with a 2F

You'd ATLEAST put an EF or later 4l in

why? a 250 has more off the shelf bits for them, produces more torque at the same revs, and weighs about half as much as a 2f. all those reasons make it a viable candidate

parts are cheap as F#$%, as are replacement engines, and not many people know squat about working a 2f. look at matt mckinnus's 2f project. he's dumped a few grand into a 2f, and the performance he has could have been achieved alot cheaper from a 250 (look at fordaustralia forums in the cortina section or Xfalcon for some inspiration).

it's about horses for courses. a 250 swap'll take a day and have no hard electronics, and you'll come out about 500 bucks down with a better than standard motor, that can easily be worked.

how much more would a 4 litre swap cost? and how much more wiring to get it to run?

bad_religion_au wrote:

cloughy wrote:If your gonna put a 250 in, you may aswell stick with a 2F

You'd ATLEAST put an EF or later 4l in

why? a 250 has more off the shelf bits for them, produces more torque at the same revs, and weighs about half as much as a 2f. all those reasons make it a viable candidate

parts are cheap as F#$%, as are replacement engines, and not many people know squat about working a 2f. look at matt mckinnus's 2f project. he's dumped a few grand into a 2f, and the performance he has could have been achieved alot cheaper from a 250 (look at fordaustralia forums in the cortina section or Xfalcon for some inspiration).

it's about horses for courses. a 250 swap'll take a day and have no hard electronics, and you'll come out about 500 bucks down with a better than standard motor, that can easily be worked.

how much more would a 4 litre swap cost? and how much more wiring to get it to run?

How much more horspower would you gain, and fuel economy that'll outweigh initial cost, yep your 250 swap may take a day, but betcha its a crap job Takes alot more time to do a decent conversion, pretty sure your forgetting cost of a new clutch, hoses, etc

As for working a 2F, most engines respond to similar things, dunno how bore stroke ratio compares to a 250 but I'm guessing they'll be similar

Extra cost of a 4l over a 250? good runners are easily had for 400, that's EF on, fark I've given away early 4l's, a high pressure fuel pump and a swirl pot, some fuel line and smartlock removal, all up it would cost LESS than 600 more, for a FAR better engine

Wiring is fark all

Remember people fitted chev's and 250's to these old pigs, because at the time, it was to dear to repair a bloody 2H or b, 3B, not because they wanted to swap out a 2F for a 250

crap job? its not that hard. with no computer wiring pretty much uses the existing harness, and the right set of engine mounts/adapter plate (i.e. CRS) nothing like shifters or anything has to be moved.

the standard radiator is plenty to cool it, and the only "custom" item is the exaust (as it's drivers drop, not passenger).

on gas, all the 250 swaps i've witnessed have got about 100k's extra out of a 90 litre tank than the 2f's they replaced. getting the whole car for cheap cuts the cost of going to gas, and means no issues on side angles.

my estimate forgot the clutch (standard cruiser), but it;s a cost common with all the conversions. it included hoses. a fair chunk of the saving is that it's a relatively common conversion, so they pop up on ebay cheaply (i've got 3 sitting in the shed, and none of them cost me over 300)

as for getting performance out of a 2f compared to the 250, considerations to include are the head (a 1960's design, with valves on the sam side (not crossflow) restrictive intake and exaust runners). do many companies make better intakes for them or are you stuck wit the standard manifold?

a crossflow may make torque in the same rev range, but it's more efficient an engine so makes higher HP at higher revs, where the 2F starts to struggle.

then you've got the restrictions of the weight of the thing. all that reciprocating mass robs you of power, where a crossflows internals are lighter (and have more off the shelf performance bits). then you have to be wary of any extra forces you put on the crank, as it's only supported with 4 main bearings, instead of 7...

so no, not all engines respond the same to the same treatments.

as for off the bat improvements, you can look the figures up, but in the same weight shorty as mine, with the same gearbox etc, the 250 was holding 1 gear higher than mine (2f powered) up any hill and wasn't at full throttle?

and "at the time" they weren't using 250's in 9 second falcons. but the performance potential of these motors has been realised.

ater owning a 308 75. it was big mistake fuel economy was around 30l per 100k's so kiss touring good bye. low torque was great cos it's what i buil the engine for. but i'd break stuff everyweekend, ( same drivline as a 60) gearbox didn't like it either..
a t700 might seem like a great idea but i've heard realy isn't up to the task of pushing around the wieght of a loaded 60. better of with a t350 or t400. but then u loose a ratio.

the only thing v8's r good for is noise and using fuel. if u want power the ford 6 or yota 1fz-fe is a safe bet with reliability and better economy.

ok how much work is involved in bolting up the 1fz-fe to the 4speed for now???

no idea? maybe a rolled 80 and use the whole drivetrain?

bad_religion_au wrote:no idea? maybe a rolled 80 and use the whole drivetrain?

f&#k that to much work if that is what needs to be done

Nat84 wrote:

bad_religion_au wrote:no idea? maybe a rolled 80 and use the whole drivetrain?

f&#k that to much work if that is what needs to be done

hows that too much work? it's not too different to any other engine swap. you got exaust, cooling, engine mounts and wiring to contend with

there may be a way to adapt the 4 speed to it, i just dunno enough

bad_religion_au wrote:crap job? its not that hard. with no computer wiring pretty much uses the existing harness, and the right set of engine mounts/adapter plate (i.e. CRS) nothing like shifters or anything has to be moved.

the standard radiator is plenty to cool it, and the only "custom" item is the exaust (as it's drivers drop, not passenger).

on gas, all the 250 swaps i've witnessed have got about 100k's extra out of a 90 litre tank than the 2f's they replaced. getting the whole car for cheap cuts the cost of going to gas, and means no issues on side angles.

my estimate forgot the clutch (standard cruiser), but it;s a cost common with all the conversions. it included hoses. a fair chunk of the saving is that it's a relatively common conversion, so they pop up on ebay cheaply (i've got 3 sitting in the shed, and none of them cost me over 300)

as for getting performance out of a 2f compared to the 250, considerations to include are the head (a 1960's design, with valves on the sam side (not crossflow) restrictive intake and exaust runners). do many companies make better intakes for them or are you stuck wit the standard manifold?

a crossflow may make torque in the same rev range, but it's more efficient an engine so makes higher HP at higher revs, where the 2F starts to struggle.

then you've got the restrictions of the weight of the thing. all that reciprocating mass robs you of power, where a crossflows internals are lighter (and have more off the shelf performance bits). then you have to be wary of any extra forces you put on the crank, as it's only supported with 4 main bearings, instead of 7...

so no, not all engines respond the same to the same treatments.

as for off the bat improvements, you can look the figures up, but in the same weight shorty as mine, with the same gearbox etc, the 250 was holding 1 gear higher than mine (2f powered) up any hill and wasn't at full throttle?

and "at the time" they weren't using 250's in 9 second falcons. but the performance potential of these motors has been realised.

I wont argue to much about these facts, BUT its alot of trouble for a little gains, wehn if buying a new adaptor, you may aswell go the 4l, thats where the fuel saving i mention are to be gained and a crapload more horspower of the bat than a 250

I've done enough engine conversions, first being an EL XR6 motor in my first car, and owned and wrecked out falcons for about 5 years, so got a little idea about them all, but as i stated, if going to the trouble might aswell do it properly 4l romps a 250 as far as torque, horsepower and fuel efficiency

bad_religion_au wrote:now i'm not a chev basher. they're great for speedboats and cars. they are cheap, easy to get parts for, and can produce huge gobs of power.

but most i've driven do lack torque down low. in a 60, it's not about 1/4 mile times, but what sort of mumbo you can muster when you step on the pedal at 400rpm.

consider a long stroke 6 of some description. they won't make the outright HP of a chev v8, but they will lug a hell of a lot better.

if money isn't a huge deal, i 1FZ-FE out of an 80 would be my pick, hell there's a chance that you could do the swap just using factory tojo parts.

or if your after cheap and common, a falcon 4.1 crossflow 6 or one of the later 4.0's.

a 4.1 crossflow can be had running for under 100 bucks (generally with the rest of the car attached ) they love gas, they can produce awesome torque (there's one in a corty on gas that produces 1 000nm torque at 1800rpm over here in SA). easy to mod, and with 7 main bearings, a turbo won't overstress the crank.

there is a valid reason for your " experience" with SBC's

99% of them that are installed in 4x4's are origionally built for a car, they are not cammed and rammed for low down torque.

change the cam, add some mass to the flywheel and you have all the torque in the world.
Everyone gets excited when they hear a " stage 2 or 3 cam" is going into their 4wd motor, they dont realise how weak it becomes offroad and on the freeway trying to lug 2.5 to 3.5 tonnes of brick around at 110km/s @2000

pull a mercruiser small block out of a boat and slot it into a car and you will hear and see all about torque


Jes


Jes

known 2 wrote:
a t700 might seem like a great idea but i've heard really isn't up to the task of pushing around the weight of a loaded 60. better of with a t350 or t400. but then u loose a ratio.

t

whoever told you this knows nothing about transmissions.
the t700 transmission is found behind many trucks in the USA as factory fitment. built with the correct truck or corvette components, they are tough as nails.

Jes

i read that the t700 isn't up to it. gm have another heavy duty 4spd they use behind bigblocks and lager engines.
sure u can build them strong but at what cost. not worth it..
want a strong 4spd that will bolt up to a 1fz use the 80 sereis auto. far stronger than t700 and no adapter plate required.