Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi Guys. I've searched for this topic,but haven't found an answer to this specific question. I've got an idea for a variable length panhard rod (having a panhard is a nessaccery evil in my case) that can compress and extend with the suspension flex. see pic
What I'm wanting to know is how to find the "middle" point so I can drill the holes to lock it with. Would simply parking it on flat ground be good enough? I'm hoping there's an easy answer to this

The "locked length" should be the same length as what came out of your setup...to keep your diff housing central to the chassis when in street mode.
Somehow I don't think, however, that unlocking a panhard will work. The tyres will hit the chassis/body and nasty things will happen. Maybe an 'A' frame setup could suit you better..??
Haven't heard of such a setup before......good luck..

im interested to see how it goes... not that i use a panhard, but still be interested if ya go ahead with the idea...

What are you actully searching for more flex? What truck have you got ?
What suspension sutup are you runnign?
It should not be the panhard limiting flex.
On the rear with this setup are thinking of it would behave like a yo-yo with the tyres just scrubing from chasisi to chasis.
And for the front if you are running a standard steer setup you would turn the wheel and the body would move instead of the tyres.
And an engineer would never sign of of this one

More than likely the bolts will shear off when loaded and as said above , how would you control sideways movement because once the wheel travelled low enough it would more than likely end up stuck under the chassis rail , Cheers Paul.

what truck you got? this could be interesting to see where this thread ends up.

i cant see it working, as someone already said the panhard shouldnt be limiting flex. if the panhard moves like you want it to, you will end up destroying shocks, radius arm bushes and chew out tyres when they rub.

Make sure you put it on youtube when you drive it.

ZOOK60 wrote:Make sure you put it on youtube when you drive it.

yeah id like to see that
the whole idea of the panhard rod is to keep the axle located in a central position, what you want to do would be like driving with no panhard. the axles will wander all over the place until something breaks. i seriously wouldnt do this. there are many other better ways to improve flex.

Sorry,should've mentioned this is for the front. The panhard is 600mm long,and is bent (sorry mud empire) so there goes that theory! Hence why I'm looking for answers
It is in fact limiting travel,not by much mind you,only like an inch or so each way...at the moment,I find it pulls or pushes the whole diff in whatever direction it moves,so I thought of this variable length rod to try and stop it ruining leaves,shocks,etc...The bumpstops would stop any rubbing/fouling from over flexing anyway,so I can't see that being an issue.Truck is pictured below

Leaves all round,and before anyone suggests it,i don't have the budget to goto coils
Standard Hilux SPOA set up and 1 piece hi steer arm.MX6 adjustable shockies.
Cheers for all suggestions so far

Probably shouldn't have wrote "serious flex" on the diagram....it gives the wrong impression.I'm not after "serious flex",just something that will stop the rod limiting the travel of the suspension. Only talking like 2" at the most.

Hang on a minute. why does it have a panhard if its leaves all round? are you sure your not talking about the steering drag link or maybe the torque bar that stops the diff from rotating under axle wrap. im a bit confused now you have said its leaves all round??????

With out one,it bends the leaves when you steer it.Has 37" tyres on it so there's a fair bit of force on everything. Below is the best pic I can find of it.Definatly a panhard rod,link bar and steering are up front.

yep it is a panhard. im not real familiar with suzukis. do they come standard with that, or is it something you have added?? with leaf springs what you want to do should be OK. after reading your first post i thought you were talking about a coil spring rig

Not sure if Suzukis have a front p/hard rod standard...I doubt it.
Sorry,should've clarified things a bit better, but hey,it's past my bedtime

So let me see if I understand correctly. The panhard is stopping the leaves from warping sideways when you steer so it can be driven on the road and you want to be able to free up the panhard for offroad so it can flex and twist the springs to their full potential.

Why not just unbolt the panhard from the diff and bolt it up to the chassis so it is out of the way when offroad?

Nelso wrote:So let me see if I understand correctly. The panhard is stopping the leaves from warping sideways when you steer so it can be driven on the road and you want to be able to free up the panhard for offroad so it can flex and twist the springs to their full potential.

Why not just unbolt the panhard from the diff and bolt it up to the chassis so it is out of the way when offroad?

yeah but get rid of the bolt and just use some kind of quick release pin, then weld a bracket up high and pin it up while off road

Maybe change from panhard to a watts link, that would keep the diff centered and allow full travel I think. Might not enough room though

Try asking GERMO off the board, its his old rig isnt it? This rig had to get engineered from being basically a buggy when Mick owned it, to a engeineered and registered rig when Ashley (GERMO) bought it. I think the panhard rod might have been added to satisfy the engineer. Zooks never had a front panhard rod from factory. But other leaf srpung small 4wd's did (i.e. Daihatsu rocky). What you plan to do will defeat the purpose of a panhard rod, as it will nto be able to laterally locate the front diff anymore. You can try driving it without the panhard rod, but if its not limiting travel by more than a inch, honestly do you expect the car to become so much more capable without it. The benefits of having it there, like sharper steering, probably outweight the lost of an inch or 2 flex. This truck competed in TTC, and did quite well for a low budget rig.

Layto....

get rid of it and fit a watts linkage. panhard will cause binding issues as they do not move in the same plain as the springs

Nelso,Exactly! In regards to unbolting the p/hard rod...too much work! I'd rather use some type of quick release pin on the panhard rod. I was thinking about using high tensile bolts,and drilling a hole in the end of it close to where it'd protrude from the p/hard rod,and stick some sort of clip though there...sort of like a bonnet pin? But heavier duty
danaz and bru21,not enough room for a watts linkage
Layto,yes,I'm aware it competed in Tuff Truck,8th out of 37 I believe
Why would it not be able to locate the diff anymore? Wouldn't it be able to when on the road when bolted up,and then unbolted for 4X4 so it could slide in and out?... I'm not suggesting this mod will turn it into a flex monster,but I have to make another panhard rod anyway,as my existing one bent like a bananna! I just thought why make another fixed length one that'l limit travel (granted a pissy amount) ,when I could make a variable lenght one

can i suggest a slightly different approach to this.

what is causing the springs to move sideways so much that it needs a panhard?

are your shackles to large? go with smaller shackles..

has the leafpack had too many springs removed, replace a few springs..

just something to look at..

Put some leaves back in it.
Panhard on the same side as the fixed end of the spring?

Not enough leaves in the back = bad things happen;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2La1THaq44

mud4b wrote:can i suggest a slightly different approach to this.

what is causing the springs to move sideways so much that it needs a panhard?

are your shackles to large? go with smaller shackles..

has the leafpack had too many springs removed, replace a few springs..

just something to look at..

I was going to suggest exactly this

try heavier springs, try some stock springs

you wont need a panhard

I'm assuming it's the size of the tyres thats causing it? (37x12.5x15)There's 3 leaves in the pack,and I'm pretty sure it has RUF,so I assume 3 Hilux leaves would be plenty to hold up a light suzuik.Rear of the front shackles are sweet,but the shackles at the front of the leave have about 5mm each side? I'm not really sure how tight they have to be...
Shite!!! just watched that vid!!! I guess the same thing could happen to the front?

Liam wrote:Put some leaves back in it.
Panhard on the same side as the fixed end of the spring?

Not enough leaves in the back = bad things happen;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2La1THaq44

That thing is on coils not leaves. So has nothing to do with this problem

Basically you are SOA with cross over steering. Yes it is correct that you should really be using a panhard on road. Any Hilux with crossover steering on leaves will also walk the body left to right over the leaves when turning without a panhard. But no-one ever bothers running one. Im pretty sure im right here that Mick(Metro) built that zook with the panhard originally. Gonads has also done the same thing in the past. It just makes the steering more responsive.

I agrea with what others have said. Just remove the panhard offroad. You should be able to set both ends of the panhard up so its quick to remove in exactly the same way you are looking at making this slip section up and than you will have a lot stronger set up on road.

RUF, fair enough....I was wondering why no one else had done this! Sounded good in theory to me,but I guess I could do as you said and make a quick release panhard. The only thing is that my steering arm (pictured above somewhere) is quite close to the head of that bolt,and the steering has to be turned to nearly full lock to move it away far enough to get the bolt out.Spose I could insert the pin from the other side,and cut it short so it wouldn't hit.
So that leads to my next question, (well,the original one really) how do I go about setting the truck up to install a fixed length one? Parked on flat ground good enough?

You mean fitting it again after you have finished wheeling? Find a flat area and you may also need a high lift to jack the vehicle up to get it lined up again. But you will need to do this even if you used your original idea.

That thing is on coils not leaves. So has nothing to do with this problem

pretty much same result.