Outer Limits 4x4 Board

A friend of mine is considering buying one and asked me. I know nothing about them but have noticed they devalue pretty fast, Why??? What kind of things should I look out for? What are their strengths and weeknesses?

LS wrote:A friend of mine is considering buying one and asked me. I know nothing about them but have noticed they devalue pretty fast, Why??? What kind of things should I look out for? What are their strengths and weeknesses?

It depends which Wrangler you're talking about. If your mate is after a TJ, they are everywhere and have been in Australia for over 10 years now and the main reason they have devalued so much over the last 12-24 months is due to the release of the new JK model.

I personally think they are great car and go anywhere offroad (no I don't own one just seen others and was impressed). I think the wrangler actually has quite good resale value (unlike most jeeps). Think about it...a ten year old wrangler with average k's (eg. 140 000) will still bring about $12 - 13k. That's just over a 50% drop in ten years...pretty good if you ask me. Compare with nine year old GU patrol eg. the petrol 4500. Well over $50k new and now worth less than $20k depending on models.

Their strengths and weaknesses are that they are a jeep. now the purists will tell you that this is a good thing. those who are not will knock them. they are very capable 4bies and can go some awesome places.

their chassis to tend to flex over rocks, but then i spose this helps with articulation... its a jeep thing.

not much room inside them, so not for me as a tourer, but as a weekend play toy, they are basically unstoppable.

tell your mate to take some for a drive, and see how he likes it. at the end of the day, he has to live with his decision, so it does not really matter what everyone else thinks. just make sure he gets one with a full service history.

anyway, happy four wheeling

I think they are one of the under rated brand of jeans. The denim is very good quality as they seem to last forever. Unfortunately everyone seems to like Levis or the new fangled GStar.

Oh wait you mean the Jeep.

I like the JK especially the Rubicon models for a play toy but unfortunately I think the 4 door is too small for many peoples touring/family needs.

they all have bits hanging out under them, trying to pick up shit quicker than Kenny.

no amount of lift will help them, and they're not called H E E P s for nothing.

compared to the competition, they have relatively weak axles and diffs, and need some serious lifting to get decent rubber under them. standard they don't offer that much flex.

A gq shorty is stronger, cheaper, and probably better offroad... unfortunately toyota hasn't offered anything comparable for a while now.

they are ok for street use unless you have deep pockets, there is everything imaginable available for them aftermarket though.
The belly pans always get hooked up and bend easily, trail arms bend and break first usually cos there made from about 1.6mm u channel very similar to steel shed wall noggins, front uni's break like swigs along with diff gears. They also suffer from the usual SWB dislike of hillclimbs.
They are very good in tight gullies and very capable with aftermarket parts fitted but are expensive to modify.

havning built a patrol then a jeep, i can honestly say they are only slightly more expensive to build up. That is to put a jeep on 33's and a patrol on 35s. 33's on the jeep has the same diff clearance as 35's on a patrol.

deffinately not as strong in the drive train as others out there, but a fun car that is more capable than you think.

mine on 33 swampers keeps up with the patrols on 36's in my club.

if you want 35's and up then be prepaird to pay lots of money.

Hands up in this thread that actually have a Wrangler?

So in terms of thoughts on Wranglers perhaps only those should comment (especially in terms of diff strength, etc).

I mighty pay out on Toyotas and Nissans, but it's all in jest. I'm sure as hell not qualified to talk about their true strengths and weaknesses.

And now for the topic at hand. If you need space or if you're looking for a family wagon then forget them. If you're looking for an incredibly competent 4x4 out of the box (so long as you disconnect the front sway bar) then they are unbeatable.

So is the feeling of heading out bush with the roof off. Add even a small lift (a 2" spacer for $200 or so) and 31s and they'll take you very, very far. They're light and they're nibble.

As far as more expensive modifications, two things work in your favour now. First off America loves them, so there's a TON of mods you can do, and with the Aussie $$ at the level it is, they're not that expensive. Plus the new JK Wrangler means some of the kits have dropped even more.

As for the diffs, well every Aussie TJ got Dana 30s front and Dana 44s rear. Now the Dana 30 gets a bad rap, but check with Wooders, he's run two (??) Tuff Trucks with his on 35s and a front locker, and from what I've seen he hasn't been gentle...and there's literally thousands of them running rocks in the US with no problem.

owners are generally biased when it comes to their own rigs. i wouldn't tell anyone to just trust my opinion on 40's.

i have wheeled with a few wranglers, and thats where my info comes from. search pirate or similar to see how "well regarded" the dana 30 is... even dana 44's are a bit weak once you get over 35's.

i hope your friend who asked you is a chick.

i have to agree with ben i run a cj7 with a dana 30 with 35" tyres and a 360 motor with gear reduction gears and sure i break stuff but so do the other trucks driving the same terain as i am and some are comp trucks and as ben said the current aus dollor value mods are about the some to do as any other 4wd really it's personal choice but he can't go wrong with a jeep wrangler or a shorty patrol

Taking 33 or 35" tyres out of the discussion but sticking with driveline strength, i've been running 31's for 5 years on a 2" lift with no issues. 35" tyres are a full 6" bigger than the standard tyres so that's like running 38's or so on a patrol/cruiser.

When it was stock my mate and his 60 series used to walk all over my jeep offroad however when i disconnected the front swaybar it was close to even. But when i added the 2" lift and disconnected it was leap years ahead for offroad prowess, the 60 series on 32's had met it's match. I've done a few things offroad i probably shouldn't have done (like gouging the crap out of the underbody on rocks at Ormeau) but i've never broken anything in all these years.

There's one thing that other 4wd's can't match, and that's the cool/fun and awesome feeling you get when you roll the top down and/or take the doors off and go for a drive on the tracks or up the beach at fraser.

BTW i should mention i've got a wife and kids and there's not much room in the TJ but it's too much fun to get rid of

I'm a Land Cruiser purist .. but I must recognice that the Rubicon coul be one of the best 4X4 out the box right now ..

D44 axles, 4:1 t-case and lockers just make it ..

IF you are thinking in hard cor off roading with huge tire .. the old TJ could do it fine .. but with mods ..

Place in the cart, axles, gearing, lockers, lift, wheels and tires, just to run anything over 33"

The 4.0 L HO engine it's a awesome engine .. the new V6 a good choice.

Uf you choose a Patrol o Land Cruiser with the same axles, wheels, and minor lift you can run 35" add lockers ( stock axles ) and you will be fine ..

Jeeps wrote:
There's one thing that other 4wd's can't match, and that's the cool/fun and awesome feeling you get when you roll the top down and/or take the doors off and go for a drive on the tracks or up the beach at fraser.

Unless you have a zuk

cj wrote:

Jeeps wrote:
There's one thing that other 4wd's can't match, and that's the cool/fun and awesome feeling you get when you roll the top down and/or take the doors off and go for a drive on the tracks or up the beach at fraser.

Unless you have a zuk

I think that the Wranglers have a touch more 'cool' factor than a zook

HotFourOk wrote:

cj wrote:

Jeeps wrote:
There's one thing that other 4wd's can't match, and that's the cool/fun and awesome feeling you get when you roll the top down and/or take the doors off and go for a drive on the tracks or up the beach at fraser.

Unless you have a zuk

I think that the Wranglers have a touch more 'cool' factor than a zook

Probly, but they both meet their match with a rocky:







On topic I'm a closet jeep fan. I'd have one, but wouldn't go out of my way to get one. And this 'like' of them wont stop me from paying out on them at any opportunity. They seem like a good, FUN 4x4.

for the purpose of a weekend warrior and fun 4by - they are awesome! with more of the shelf mods than you can poke a stick at, soft top/hard top, plenty of HP and torque, very capable, not to mention the kool factor. however, as said, if wanting to go over 35s, than you must think about serious driveline upgrades, espcially if you drive it hard.

LS wrote:A friend of mine is considering buying one and asked me. I know nothing about them but have noticed they devalue pretty fast, Why??? What kind of things should I look out for? What are their strengths and weeknesses?

You never said the intended perpose of the jeep, this will help to get a true answer for your mate.
I have done quite a bit of work on the wranglers and the cost of a rubicon 4.5" lift, 2" body lift, a pair of airlockers and slip yoke eliminator kit from memory cost about $14,500 fitted I dont think that was with diff gears either. For that sort of money to spend on top of the buy price you could have a kick arse patrol.
I am interested to know if the price of things has dropped that much as a freind of mine wants to mod a wrangler soon

Jeeps wrote:Taking 33 or 35" tyres out of the discussion but sticking with driveline strength, i've been running 31's for 5 years on a 2" lift with no issues. 35" tyres are a full 6" bigger than the standard tyres so that's like running 38's or so on a patrol/cruiser.

There's one thing that other 4wd's can't match, and that's the cool/fun and awesome feeling you get when you roll the top down and/or take the doors off and go for a drive on the tracks or up the beach at fraser.

only a jeep owner would brag about running 31's.

i fail to see why the "slip yolk eliminator" is such a big seller if jeeps have such a bulletproof driveline?

or why they decided the rubicon needed a dana 44 (still about on par with a stock cruiser steer axle) if the dana 30 was such an awesome choice of axle.

i think a topless or doorless 40 has more fun/impact factor than a wrangler. park a wrangler in any state of disrepair and see how many people go out of their way to chat to you. i can't count how many people have commented/offered to buy my 4 0 while it's been sitting waiting for the engine conversion.

me im a zook driver .


give your self a budget of $20k and see what ya can get for ya money.
a stock GU patrol, a wrangler with $5k to spend on mods or a Zook with $15k to spend on mods . Spend $15k on moddin a zook and ya have a tuff truck sittin in ya driveway.



depends on what ya want. for a cheap weekend basher ge a zook. daily driver and weekend warrior get a Jheep and for a family off road wagon then get a patrol/cruiser.

Each to their own.

built4thrashing wrote:me im a zook driver .


give your self a budget of $20k and see what ya can get for ya money.
a stock GU patrol, a wrangler with $5k to spend on mods or a Zook with $15k to spend on mods . Spend $15k on moddin a zook and ya have a tuff truck sittin in ya driveway.



depends on what ya want. for a cheap weekend basher ge a zook. daily driver and weekend warrior get a Jheep and for a family off road wagon then get a patrol/cruiser.

Each to their own.

ha a zook and 15k on mods you will have a tuff truck and a house deposit or little boat or alot of things.

they are tuff as std

11_evl wrote:

built4thrashing wrote:me im a zook driver .


give your self a budget of $20k and see what ya can get for ya money.
a stock GU patrol, a wrangler with $5k to spend on mods or a Zook with $15k to spend on mods . Spend $15k on moddin a zook and ya have a tuff truck sittin in ya driveway.



depends on what ya want. for a cheap weekend basher ge a zook. daily driver and weekend warrior get a Jheep and for a family off road wagon then get a patrol/cruiser.

Each to their own.

ha a zook and 15k on mods you will have a tuff truck and a house deposit or little boat or alot of things.

they are tuff as std

spend 15k on a zuke and you'll find find yourself surrounded by people in white coats

RockyF70 wrote:

HotFourOk wrote:

cj wrote:

Jeeps wrote:
There's one thing that other 4wd's can't match, and that's the cool/fun and awesome feeling you get when you roll the top down and/or take the doors off and go for a drive on the tracks or up the beach at fraser.

Unless you have a zuk

I think that the Wranglers have a touch more 'cool' factor than a zook

Probly, but they both meet their match with a rocky:







On topic I'm a closet jeep fan. I'd have one, but wouldn't go out of my way to get one. And this 'like' of them wont stop me from paying out on them at any opportunity. They seem like a good, FUN 4x4.

LOL I'm sure sure zook and rocky owners love em to bits and just so, but i'm not a fan of the buzzing the little engines make on the hwy or in the deep soft high tide sand I much prefer to chug along at 1800rpm on the hwy and be able to stomp the gas on the beach whenever i want...

here's a pic on 29" tyres



word of advice, don't do this when it's windy

crusin over mt skene in the snow one yr, came across a hairdresser driving one, and we all cruised round together for a while.

one thing I did notice, he had 10.5 wide tires, and his jeep barely sank at all into the snow compared to the GQs - GQs all loaded, Jeep only had brush and hair dryer in it.

impressed me with how easily it did it

Jeeps wrote:


I much prefer to chug along at 1800rpm on the hwy and be able to stomp the gas on the beach whenever i want...

here's a pic on 29" tyres



word of advice, don't do this when it's windy

not mine.. just a common theme.. i have to agree.. beach - roof = nniicceee no mater what you drive..

nice

I took a JK 4 door, for a test drive and didn't like the driving position. So much that I wouldn't enjoy driving it. Also the fuel tank hangs down below the chassis rails and would cop a pounding sliding over things. The interior carpet in the back kept falling off the sides which didn't seam like good value for 45 grand +.

mate has one in our group. broken tailshaft 3 times b4 he got the slip yoke. engine cooling problems gearbox problems. The transfer guard is always getting caught on stuff. only with 31"s and a 2" spring lift. i am so over him bragging....... But it does handle some stuff good. every car has its own place offroad