Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I'm looking at upgrading the comfort of my daily driver (actually I only drive it a couple of days of any given week), which will also get pressed into duty as a long distance tourer (for two people) once a year or so, with Cape York planned for mid next year.

I haven't settled on a make/model yet but basically I'm after a comfortable, capable vehicle that's smaller than the current Maverick LWB but still reasonably roomy.

Assuming I get approximately $6000 for the Maverick, I'll probably be looking to throw another $10-12k for a total spend of $16-18k on a replacement.

Fuel economy is mediocre on the dual fuel Mav, fine around town but starts to add up in outback travel, and I would want better economy from the replacement vehicle. Diesel or dual fuel are both on the table.

The vehicles I'm considering are maybe Discovery, Cherokee, Pathfinder, Pajero, or MU. (MU just because I miss the one I sold a few years ago.) Maybe even a Jackaroo.

Whatever I get I'll want it to be running 32-33" muddies and be toey enough not to suck in traffic, and capable of safely overtaking a road train (or any carnt with a caravan) at 130kmh when required.

Any suggestions?

Jason

Pathfinder hideous fuel ecomony - we have a 2001/2 model.

bogged wrote:Pathfinder hideous fuel ecomony - we have a 2001/2 model.

What motor?

It's a pity you say that, I was thinking it might be a good option.

From you list... i reckon Discovery. Is that 16 - 18 just purchase price? or inclusive of any goodies that must be spent...

There is a few examples here: car sales add
However you wont be able to get a TD5 model in your price range.

With whats left after, bar work - $1.5k if your sensible and have a keen eye for bargains, locker - $1.5k, Suspension - $1k, and then perhaps tyres if needs be.

Id be looking to swap over as many goodies from the Mav (within reason) to keep down costs such as lights, dual battery systems, Radios, CD Players etc as you will never get a good resale value on these.

By the by... you wouldnt want to get another Patrol/80 series?... you could make a turbo diesel fly with the amount you have to spend.... and you could pick one up with all the bits ready to go, just need to speak nicely to Dzltec

I guess I wouldn't absolutely rule out another Patrol or an 80 if the price was right, but to be honest I am getting to feel that the Patrol at least is a bit trucklike for me these days.

With the discos, how does that 2.5 litre turbo diesel go? I gather the economy is outstanding but how is the grunt?

I have to admit that if I thought the economy could be okay a dual fuel V8 disco might be preferable for me.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... p?t=121201

This might wet your whistle... has all the mod cons, needs some love and gas but would fit your 33"s comfortably....

A mate has the TDi disco... there are a few cheap mods you can do to the pump and wastegate, they run stock 14 psi boost and haul ass. Coupled with magnificent handling it is a pleasure of a car to drive on long hauls, pity about the room in the back for adults however.

Id suggest jump over to aus land rover forums, or even the rover section on here.

+dj_hansen+ wrote:http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... p?t=121201

This might wet your whistle... has all the mod cons, needs some love and gas but would fit your 33"s comfortably....

Thanks for the answer. That car sounds farking nice actually but I can't get the LPG rebate for the vehicle I buy so I'd be up for the full $3500 or whatever for gas conversion.

What does a V8 Disco get in fuel economy, any idea?

chimpboy wrote:

+dj_hansen+ wrote:http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... p?t=121201

This might wet your whistle... has all the mod cons, needs some love and gas but would fit your 33"s comfortably....

Thanks for the answer. That car sounds farking nice actually but I can't get the LPG rebate for the vehicle I buy so I'd be up for the full $3500 or whatever for gas conversion.

What does a V8 Disco get in fuel economy, any idea?

No idea... could find out for you, but youd probably get a better representative sample in the Rover section and on auslro....

I know they sound horn with some exhaust work tho

Why no LPG rebate... 'work' car?

PS how did u end up going with the fencing etc.... PM if u like.

A Paj will do what you want. My shorty had zero problems up the Cape, but required careful equipment selection and packing to squeeze everything in. Go the LWB, so you can carry more stuff.

Get the last of the solid rear models, fit some decent 265/75-16 (32") tyres to the factory alloys, 2" of suspension lift and you're well on your way. It will take 33's, but those that will fit the factory alloys aren't as common in remote areas. (285/75-16s require wider rims - to be legal.)

The 3.5V6 will do what you want on the highway, but they're a little thirsty. I'd go diesel; the 2.8 itd is a reasonable performer, but not the most economical of it's class - the rover 2.5 tdi is much better in that respect. The risk with the 2.8 is the alloy cylinder head - they've been known to crack, but I don't know if it's an inherent fault, or corrosion related due to poor maintenance. So drop in the 3.2 DiD.

If you've got money to spare the front diff lock makes a hell of a difference, and there's a few options for extending the fuel range - I know a bloke in Brisbane who could carry 200 litres in his tanks.

If you're hell-bent on petrol, I think the Prado V6 of similar vintage is a better engine - probably more powerful, I'm fairly certain it's more economical. The only downside going Prado is rear LSD (Mitsu LSD is much better ) and their front diff/CVs don't have a good reputation for strength - I don't know if that reputation is deserved.

I think Jackaroos are under-rated too, although I believe the Paj IFS is better (yeah, that's relatively speaking - no comparison with a solid axle.) If you're considering diesels research injections systems - I believe some Jackaroo diesels had an unconventional (Caterpillar?) system which requires specialist knowledge.

the late. jackeroo's had a high tech boch injection system. that has problems in cold start senarios. they 3.0 tdi jackeroo was the most powerfull in it's class and well ahead of any other manufacturer in its day with i think 120kw and 330nm.

SWB 4.2 turbo diesel GQ on 33s driven sensibly will get around 11 litres per hundred kilometres (loaded up would be around 12 to 13). With a 2 inch lift, and twin locked will get you just about anywhere and there are still a few around in good condition that would be comfortable to travel in. Take your back seat out and you have plenty of room for touring with two people. You could also keep any good bits you have now and put them on the shorty.

-Scott- wrote:
I'd go diesel; the 2.8 itd is a reasonable performer, but not the most economical of it's class - the rover 2.5 tdi is much better in that respect. The risk with the 2.8 is the alloy cylinder head - they've been known to crack, but I don't know if it's an inherent fault, or corrosion related due to poor maintenance. So drop in the 3.2 DiD.

I think the Prado V6 of similar vintage is a better engine

I would go the LWB 2.8 Pajero. Maybe consider a Prado Diesel? Not sure if they are in your price range.

What about an 80 series? Have you driven one? It will drive a lot different to your Mav.

I changed from the Pajero to the 80 series so I could drive to work in reasonable comfort, the weekend trip with the guys and the yearly long trip.

If you are after a nice vehicle fr around town that can also handle a couple of decent trips a year the jackaroos are pretty god. My parents had a couple and did the Simpson, the Tanami and Cape York in them without any dramas. My in laws just got back from a Melbourne - Cairns - Darwin - Melb trip towing a van and loved it. My father in law has a dodgy back but was never in any discomfort the whole trip.

I seriously looked at getting one before I upgraded the GQ to the GU.

The words Rover V8 and Fuel Economy don't go together ...

RoldIT wrote:The words Rover V8 and Fuel Economy don't go together ...

I hear you... but in this case I'm comparing with a TB42!

what do you hope to achieve by going to a mid size?

problems,

most mid size 4x4's have small VERY thirsty engines
most mid size have crappy diff strength
most mid size have IFS, limiting lift and suspension alternatives.
most mid size have very uncomfortable seats

Disco tdi auto is fuel efficient and grunty enough for day to day driving and a pump tweak is simple, jackeroo diesels are underrated but would be a good choice as would a paj. The gq/gu /cruiser are trucklike and too big if you spend most of the time running around the burbs.

sierrajim wrote:what do you hope to achieve by going to a mid size?

problems,

most mid size 4x4's have small VERY thirsty engines
most mid size have crappy diff strength
most mid size have IFS, limiting lift and suspension alternatives.
most mid size have very uncomfortable seats

To be honest, I really like the Maverick. I upgraded to it from an SWB Maverick, and I liked that one too. It is farking good for what it is and for the $$ I've spent on it.

However I am starting to find it a bit truck-like and for the next big trip, I think it might be nice to have something a bit newer and more comfortable, as would my gf.

Not being argumentative because I appreciate the advice, but just on two of your points - I don't know that mid-size fourbies necessarily have uncomfortable seats, all the ones I've been in have been pretty good. And I think the problems of IFS are overstated, especially with the amount of lift I'd be looking for.

But if all the mid-sizes are really as thirsty as a LWB GQ/Mav then that does change my perspective on it; I would just get another patrol if that were true.

Disco TDi is probably leading the pack in my mind atm though.

Go test drive a few.

I'm guessing this will be a long term thing, so go out drive around town in some dealer's cars and see which one's you find comfy and which ones you dont, I'd go with the disco but I'm biased, i've spent the most time in a disco out of all of them and they are by far the comfiest.

But drive em, you might find the indicator stalk on one is a pain in the ass to reach, or the view out of the dash is sh!t on another, all the comparisons and suggestions in the world dont mean squat if YOU dont find it comfy.

Prado mate.

As city-like as they are, i've seem them in the mud - strong vehicle.

sierrajim wrote:what do you hope to achieve by going to a mid size?

problems,

most mid size 4x4's have small VERY thirsty engines
most mid size have crappy diff strength
most mid size have IFS, limiting lift and suspension alternatives.
most mid size have very uncomfortable seats

Rules out most mid size and basically leaves you with a Pajero then !!

265's (32's) will fit easy and 285's (33's) will fit close on a Standard 3.5 or 2.8 Paj. They are easy to lift a couple of inch's and have the best IFS in the business. Modern coil sprung IFS does ride nicer than the Torsion bar type. You won't break a diff. The seating position is far superior to Hilux/4runner/surf. As for thirst - well they are not as thirsty as a large 4by!

Personally i've never been overley comfortable in any of the mid size 4wds. I'm in the car game so i've been in most.

Fuel difference between a Prado/Paj/Jack and a Patrol/Cruiser will be bugger all at the end of the day.

Space on a long trip in the bigger car makes things easier, not to mention parts availibility for the bigger more common vehicles.

Yes, most IFS vehicles can be easily modded to fit 33's, their driveline strength compared to the others is quite weak. The Jackaroo CV as an example is very small.

Each to their own, thats why the build so many types of vehicles. I'm not against IFS at all, i own an IFS 100 series.

Mid size 4x4's to me, feel like they're fitted with small car/hatchback interiors. Where the full size feels more like a sedan. Could just be me though.

sierrajim wrote:Personally i've never been overley comfortable in any of the mid size 4wds. I'm in the car game so i've been in most.

Are you counting the disco in this? I am not sure whether a disco counts as full size or mid size... it seems to me it's sort of small full size, kinda.

If you check out the rear of a gu or 100 series there isnt much more room than a mid size vehicle and the prado has the least if its a 7 seater.
Its a pity the previous model pathfinder didnt come with a diesel as the size would be just right i reckon.

i couldn't work out why you were asking about mid sized 4wds paj/disco/jack/etc in a thread titled "winch rig". didn't seem hardcore vehicles to me. now i've realized title is actually "which rig" it all makes sense


sorry, nothing to add at the moment

chimpboy wrote:

sierrajim wrote:Personally i've never been overley comfortable in any of the mid size 4wds. I'm in the car game so i've been in most.

Are you counting the disco in this? I am not sure whether a disco counts as full size or mid size... it seems to me it's sort of small full size, kinda.

Actually had a disco for a little while 7-8 years ago. It was reasonably comfortabe although somewhat floaty in the drive and suspension. The transfer case had a whine, the diff/diffs had a clunk and yes the engine leaked oil all at 155,000km. Needless to say i didn't have it too long it was wisked off the the auctions.

The Rangie/Disco is, in theory, the ideal balance between tourer and semi capable while retaining some space, comfort and grunt. The repair costs associated and reliability may however steer you away.

For the money you're looking at my vote still stays with patrol or cruiser.

My 99 GU petrol Gas that i sold only a few weeks ago ran 25L/100km around town and 21L/100km on the highway which makes for pretty cheap driving at $0.50. It also had 70 odd litres of petrol. That was on 285/75-16 BFG muds.

The cruiser on the same size and type of tyre runs 11-12l/100km on the highway around town its a bit heavy but that may have something to do with the driver.

Dollar wise the Patrol was cheaper to run based on averge fuel figures. I service my cars every 5,000km regardless. However the average user would find the Patrol even cheaper to run as its service intervals are 10,000km as opposed to the Turbo Diesel Cruiser at 5,000km.

All i'm saying is that if you're looking at downsizing to save on running costs you might want to actually look at how much you're saving and weather its worth the sacrafice.

mate told me someone at his work picked up a Tdi disco (4 cyl) for $4000. Could of been a piece of shight or maybe he just got lucky. Seems damn cheap for what you get though - that is a comfortable, economical and capable 4by.

And since it's below your budget you could have spare cash to throw at it.