Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I want to get my wheels out a bit wider, mainly to increase stability because it feels like its could roll very easily with the height. I find the rocky's have quite a tall body on them. But also I've had to wind out the turnstops because the front scrub on full lock so I want to get my turning circle back!

Any easy ways to do so?

I was thinking about getting offset rims but I'm not sure if there's anything else I need to be thinking about when getting my wheels to sit wider.

Obviously the wheels won't flex up into the guard anymore so there could be some scrubbing there but there's not much of a guard as the plastic ones are gone now and I'll be putting rubber flexy guards on there.

Any suggestions or pics of similar would be much appreciated.

F100 rims have the bigger offsets then dai rims.
just a tip if your buying new rims

yes I 2nd that F100 15x8 big offset & its cheaper than puting wider diffhousings under or making reversed rims

you can order different offset wheels too like steelies in 15x8 ,5x5.50 can be found in different offsets
i found a couple options looking at catalogs in my tire store a few days ago

The first question of by how much ?

It its only a little then rims are the easy way to go, but remember you are loading up your wheel bearings substantially and increasing the scrub radius which makes the likelyhood of the wheels hitting the front and rear of your guards more likely. Can also affect steering effort. Obviously tire size is also an issue - what you can do for 28's is different for 33's.

Wheel offsets are also issues with roadworthiness so you need to decide what risks you are prepared to take.

However if your after serious widening then serious suspension mods are required, but the gains are significant and without the issues caused by wheel offset. These can be legal if engineered. This is not a cheap approach.

I suspect that a little extra width is probably all that is easily achievable.

On Friday I got new steel wheels... 15x8", -23mm offset.

In relation to my standard wheels, they are 23mm wider. (And I also believe F78 Rocky's came with 'Wider Wheels' from factory. I'm not sure if this just meant 7" wide, or also an offset increase from previous models)

It now pushes the tyres right out to the edge of my guards, which are a LOT bigger than earlier Rocky's, so you may need some flares put on.

I am curantly going to the extreme to achive a wider wheel track,but mine is a road registered modified feroza comp rig ( & very grey area around the registered bit ) over the years I have already done,the wider wheels, then suspension, then spacers,then bigger tyres,then more suspension,then biger motor,then wider diffhousings,then more suspension,then bigger tyres, & now im at the stage we are puting GU Patrol running gear under...
...I hope you see the problem with wanting a wider wheel track,or larger tyres...you will always want more!!!!! because the minute you drive out of the shop with your new bling,you sit back & say that looks huge,but after driving it for a week you sit back & think,,,just a little bigger wont hurt!!!!!!
good luck on your creation.....PIGLET

Thanks guys, this info has been pretty good...

It sounds like offsets are a pretty cheap and easy way to get my turning circle back again.

But there was mention of putting extra load on the bearings... Is this load ultimately going to damage things or is it alright?

I don't claim to be capable of performing the analysis necessary to answer your question in a absolute way - all I can provide is a general rule of thumb that seems to make sense to me. If someone out there can do this by engineering rather than rule of thumb then please contribute.

The rule of thumb answer is that offset places greater load on the wheel bearings. Double the offset and you double the leverage of the wheel on the bearing assembly. And by bearings I also mean suspension components like ball joints.

The issue is of course is this a problem in real life ?

If you do a search of the net, everyone agrees on the theory but no one has any absolute answer as they are just too many variables, size of the bearings, distance apart, hub materials, tire mass, driving style, etc etc ( you get the picture ) to simply say offset Y will be a problem for vehicle X.

What is logical is that if the center of the wheel/tire coincides with the center of the bearing assembly the leverage of the wheel and tire on the bearings is minimized and strength maximized. That being said, many manufactures do have small offsets on wheels as it has a range of affects on steering. Too much offset can produce very nasty steering kickback.

So sorry, I can't say it will be a problem for you, just give you a "general rule of thumb" - greater offset generates greater stress and more pronounced steering effects. Keep it small and IMO its unlikely you will have problems.

Personally I like "factory" offset.


End pseudo tech stuff

wheel spacers work well but are illegal

mrRocky wrote:wheel spacers work well but are illegal

if you've got the $$$ or can find them second hand.

Atleast they are removable, just like changing tyres. But then again, you may as well just have a second set of tyres, on for road on for off, and go nuts with the offset on the offroad rims.

Of course 4 wheel spacers will take alot less room than 4 rims/tires

Yeah but surly wheel spacers would end up putting more stress in the last bit of thread on the wheel bolts?

What do you guys know about rocky steering components?

Wider offset wheels (increase of 25mm in track, in NSW) are as illegal as wheel spacers, but maybe less noticable.

4RunnerBoy wrote:Yeah but surly wheel spacers would end up putting more stress in the last bit of thread on the wheel bolts?

What do you guys know about rocky steering components?

REAL wheel spacers bolt onto the existing wheel studs, then have another set that you mount the wheel to, unlike merely spacers that fit between your hub and rim.

As you can see in this pic:


Some rice boys just use these type, but are usually only about 6mm or so.

Ha ha, shows that I know.

That looks like it could be a good optios because I could relatively easily removed and replaced if required.

Food for thought, thanks alot!

Does the hub look spaced out as well ? If its not it must stick out well past the wheel and be a "bit" vulnerable.

MightyMouse wrote:[img]
Does the hub look spaced out as well ? If its not it must stick out well past the wheel and be a "bit" vulnerable.

It looks to be that way doesn't it?.... I just googled for them pics...

If it is spaced out the same width as the wheel spacer, it won't change in relation to the edge of the rim, hence not being any more prone to damage I suppose.

Is there an advantage to spacing out the hub as well as the wheel?

If the hub wasnt spaced it wouldnt that only make it less likely to be damaged?

MightyMouse wrote:Does the hub look spaced out as well ? If its not it must stick out well past the wheel and be a "bit" vulnerable.

I doubt it. It's probably fitted to an older larger 4WD of some description. Some had long hubs that hung out past the edge of the wheels standard

r0ck_m0nkey wrote:

MightyMouse wrote:Does the hub look spaced out as well ? If its not it must stick out well past the wheel and be a "bit" vulnerable.

I doubt it. It's probably fitted to an older larger 4WD of some description. Some had long hubs that hung out past the edge of the wheels standard

40* series stick out HEEEAAAAPS
anyone know y?

Still looks "fake" to me...

But spacing the hub would be a MAJOR job as you would have to remake the CV outer with a longer shaft.

And BTW its not necessary.

What is a problem is that the vehicle is now being carried on the wheel studs. Although for ease of manufacture most wheels are a loose fit on the hub centre, "Correct" engineering practice is the the hub to wheel fit be tight enough to carry the vehicel with the studs being only required to keep it together and transmit drive and breaking torque.

Taken to its logical end full blow race cars use a large centre nut simply to hold the wheel to the hub, with pins instead of bolts to transmit the torque.

However they can be a royal pain to get off when they get hot etc....

Yeah that makes sense...

So in essense offset rims may well be a better way to go because they will still sit around the hub as the wheel should...

Not something I'll be doing for a while yet as I've got some other issues to sort out now, I've posted something about this as well, lol.

Thanks for all the info and suggestions though!

Just get a 2nd set of tires with offset rims, then you can have full blown off road tires and not worry about wearing them down so much on road

Yeah I think thats most probably the go... However the main reason for this car is to do a trip up to cape york so when I get around to that I want tyres that are decent on road and off without carrying two sets!

But while I'm in sydney I think 2 sets is the go, I do have plenty of room to store them as well!

When I do the cape (2009 at this stage) I'm taking a second set of tyres in a trailer (probably have 2-3 sets in there for the other cars too ) , and leaving the trailer somewhere near Cairns or Cooktown, either friends house, or you could leave it in one of them self storage joints if you don't know anyone, maybe cost $50 or something.

Yeah but I plan to do some other travelling as well... Probably be away at least 3 months so I don't really want to be towing a trailor all the time... It is food for thought though.

MightyMouse wrote:Still looks "fake" to me...

Nope, that's a Ford/Dana internal bolt freewheeling hub design. They're very very very long. In this case, the car has Mile Marker freewheeling hubs.

I agree with all your points about wheel spacers. They are a poor solution, especially for the front were steering loads are added.

Not all rear ends are hub centric, but most fronts are. Suzuki is an example of this.

Steve.

Well - my fake detector is out of calibration....

I suppose its one way not to rub you sills on embankments

Thanks Steve.

the front diffs on piglet are spaced,as bunderia is 30mm skinner each side compared to fourrunner/surf.& the spacer went in b4 the disc rotor