Don't use the Clutch On Downhills

[eXc]

Went out on the weekend with some mates. All of us newbies to wheelin. Never had any big issues until this day.

We had to come back down a hill we went up due to trees across the road. It wasn't THAT bad of a hill, the 2 guys I was with shouldn't have had issues as they had a raised Pajero/Hilux and me in the Vitara. I had to take a risk of slipping into a big rut (it's not shown on these pics) but it was ok, I didn't. The Pajero made it down fine too, as it was no issue as he had clearance, just crawled down nice and easy.

I got around the corner, out of the way, waiting for the hilux....waiting...waiting.... then i hear a small crunch. then another crunch, then i hear slipping/picking up speed. I jumped out of my car just in time to have my gut get wrenched as I could tell they were starting to roll...then a massive bang and I knew they had turned over...ran up the hill to find them already starting to get out of the car. No one was hurt, but man that wasn't a good feeling - I can only assume it was worse for them.

I was trying to work out what went wrong, cause their gearing is sooo much lower than mine, how did they get up speed? I talked to the driver after he calmed down, turned out he painicd when he slipped into a rut. Must have grabbed the brakes, and the clutch too. the car got away from him, then he turned by accident (which was lucky or they would have got up more speed and gone of a steep drop into trees) and went up an embankment, causeing them to roll.

We all knew not to use the clutch, but he panic'd and stuffed up.

Here's some pics.

http://home.kooee.com.au/exup250/4x4/1.jpg

http://home.kooee.com.au/exup250/4x4/2.jpg

[shorty_f0rty]

BUGGER!

glad he got out of it ok.. the roof looks pretty caved in on that 2nd pic..

guess its good to get a roll out of the way early on but thats a bit unfortunate.

hopefully you and your mates will have learnt from his mistakes next time he's in a similar situation..

4wheeling has a bit of a learning curve and it can be quite intense for n00bs.. only way to get better is get out there wheeling again.

[GQ Bear]

Bugger alright!

Hard and expensive lesson but one i hope learnt by all. There's a bit more to this whole 4wdriving caper than money and balls. A few of us here on OL are forever trying to pull up noobies before they go a cropper and now it's good to see you've the experience and will to share it to help others.

Glad to hear everyone's alright and i hope you're mates able to back into it all again shortly. Looking at the pics he's lucky it was dry, could've been off the edge with multiple roll-over and...tree! Game over.

Sometimes wheelin is like a golf swing. You've gotta do the most unnatural acts in order to perform the best.

Trust your low range gearing and engine breaking. If gaining momemtum on steep hill or dropping into ruts too hard then feather the brakes. Don't lock up and never fully clutch, ride clutch if you have to but no angel gear. When turning on steep downhill, esp. when muddy, accelerate out of corner/rut/bend, etc. It's the most unnatural thing to do but just switch your brain off and trust your balls for a moment.

[shorty_f0rty]

this reminded me of a situation i was in on when driving with a mate in the vic high country..

after dark, descending from mt pinnabar to tom groggin with clutch on its way out, AT's and slippery tracks..

anyone who has gone down that way can attest its got quite the pucker factor. add to the situation at night, and starting to get a bit sideways, I had to feather the accelerator to get her to straighten up... very very hard to do when your decending so steep a grade that your seatbelt is taking your weight... coming acropper on that decent would of been disasterous.. and unrecoverable..

[eXc]

Yeah, we knew not to use the clutch. I start with a little brakes at the top if need be and hold it there, so it's a constant pressure all the way down. but that is only cause of my gearing. he could have crept it easy (i drove it the rest of the way down and couldnt believe how slow it goes....gotta get me some better transfer gears for the Vitara!

he knew what to do and not to do....he just stuffed up and paid for it. The ironic thing is we were there 2 months ago, on the same hill, and he went down it in his stock sierra with road tyres no worries...

Anyone reccomened the best options for the repair/sale of it?

He wants to repair it. So it would have to be a new cab. The tray and guards could be fixed, but the roof/all doors are bent.

Is it likely he'll find a cab for it? or is he gonna have to panel beat it / sell it for parts

[GQ Bear]

Chop the whole top off it. Straighten anything else, cap and round off edges. Build a full cage. Build in a windscreen. Get some canvas made up and wala...soft top Hilux, now how cool would that be.

[Highway-Star]

I feel so sorry for these blokes, I would cry if that was my car . Best of luck sorting out the roof.

I learnt not to clutch down hills on my L's. I was in 2nd gear, LR up the bush in Dad's Sierra learning. Anyway he said to me that this was to fast for the downhill descent, so what did a 15 year old fool do, stuck the cluctch in and tried to jam into 1st. Only time he ever yelled at me when I was learning.

[rover1]

2nd pic looks like a job for the hi-lift, jack the roof up and keep driving.

was getting it back onto the wheels hard?

[BundyRumandCoke]

From my experience, when driving down steep rutted tracks, the best thing to do is drive in the ruts, unless they are so deep that diff clearance is going to be an issue. You are almost guaranteed the ruts will follow the wheel tracks down the hill, and there isnt much chance of accidently slipping into a rut.

[Wish I had coils]

very scary if you throw the clutch in down a hill i did it once and never again, The worst one is steep clay down hill and no matter what you do ie. brake throw into reverse (no i don't do that example only), accelerate, the 4by just slides and keeps speeding up till you get to the bottom
I experianced that one not that long ago close your eyes and hope you make it to the bottom.

[jimmyb]

Try learning a little more before you go out next time. Glad all ok.

[macca81]

Sucked in. Try learning a little before you go out next time.

dont be an arsehole to the young fella. there is no better way of learning than by getting out there and doing it. and as he said, they knew not to do that, but panic set in... now learn as much as humanly possible b4 going out there, and panic will still make you forget all of it, its only track time that can make you do these things without thinking...





just ask him, im sure he has learnt good and proper

[eXc]

2nd pic looks like a job for the hi-lift, jack the roof up and keep driving.

was getting it back onto the wheels hard?

Yeah, it was a touch hard to drive like that, I had my head out the window haha. We didn't have a high lift, so we ended up chopping down a tree, putting the trunk across the doors then using a small floor jack with combination of different length of tree trunk we cut up. Only took 20 mins or so and it was driveable in a normal fashion.


Getting it onto the wheels was pretty easy, we had 5 guys to push, only took 1 minute or so. Then waited 45 mins for the oil to settle, then I drove it for him down to a flat section where we did the above to the roof, then he drove it the rest of the way

just ask him, im sure he has learnt good and proper

Yeah well he's decided to get another hilux, but says he wont go in the bush again. but we will get him back out.

Sucked in. Try learning a little before you go out next time.

It's always a privilidge to meet a person like yourself. I can only imagine, with you being perfect and all, it would be hard to understand how someone could make a mistake.

[HotFourOk]

Sucked in. Try learning a little before you go out next time.

You sir, are awarded the prize for knob of the month.

[macca81]

i think its obvious that young jimmyb has never made a mistake, was born knowing just what to do in every aspect of life, and should be looked upon to by all for the god of perfection that he is...........





for the rest of us mere mortals out there, have a go, practice, make mistakes, learn from those mistakes, get better, then make the mistakes again for the fun of it

[T_Diesel]

very scary if you throw the clutch in down a hill i did it once and never again, The worst one is steep clay down hill and no matter what you do ie. brake throw into reverse (no i don't do that example only), accelerate, the 4by just slides and keeps speeding up till you get to the bottom
I experianced that one not that long ago close your eyes and hope you make it to the bottom.

I went down Collingwood Spur in the Vic High Country in June which is quite steep and very slippery when wet, with a girl sitting in the front seat with me crying and really not wanting to be there. The pucker situation was quite something I tell you that. When cruising down hills like that, the hardest thing to do I find is to resist touching the brakes which generally results in sliding down which is not what you want.

I have found you are best keeping it in low 1 and going down the track a litte faster that you would like but at least you are maintaining traction.

[RO8M]

I reckon the best thing I have done to learn about 4wheel driving (only really started this year) is to read this forum voraciously.

These are the best threads, when someone posts a mistake they'd made, and how they've learnt from it, and everyone else agrees, and adds to it.

I remember a favourite from wtf ( ithink) whereby he had a lo-ong night, in the wet, with dingos on his tail, scratched contacts, etc, walking out from the very wet bush. Excellent thread.

Here, i found it. http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... ight=dingo

Thanks guys, i'm getting better by reading, and practicing...

[jimmyb]

Fair enough guys. Bad night.

Retracted!

And for the record, made my fair share of mistakes. Still kinda funny when someone makes a simple bad call in judgement though.

[T_Diesel]

It can happen to anyone not just 4wders/bushwalkers. Its all about being prepared if it does happen, and knowing what to do if you get into a difficult situation.

Off the topc, a couple of years ago a couple of mates of mine decided to buy a maricat catamaran out of the trading post. Neither of them had any sailing experience so what do they do, the first Saturday they get they decide to launch the cat froma deserted beach in Port Phillip Bay on a day when it was blowing around 30 knots. They were having great fun surfing the waves until the thing capsized and they couldn't right it because it kept blowing right over. One of them lost touch with the boat and with the swells could see his other mate and the catamaran drifting further away and they were a couple of kms from shore.

To cut a long story short, the guy who lost contact with the boat was a bloody good swimmer and than god for that so he decided to make a swim for shore. The guy who stayed with the boat was spoted through a telescope from one of the houses on the foreshore and they called the coast guard, he got picked up and they then went looking for the other bloke. They thought he must have died as they couldn't find him, were about to call in an aireal search when he rocks up on the beach alive. Afew hings kept him alive.

1) He was wearing a life jacket
2) Lucky he didn't cramp up
3) He could swim
4) He had the will power to swim a few kms in big swells whilst its raining without thinking I wonder what is below me

He said a few times he thought that he was going to drown especially when the swells went up and hw couldn't tell if he was still going in the same direction.

[Wish I had coils]

I have to say the only real way to learn is to go out in different conditions (like the say about getting you licence) Try and start with a small hill in the dry then in the wet then step up the hill to a bigger one try rut driving wete and dry, All it is, is to have some fun and just slowley push your self a little futher and a little futhur
My self i like to push my self just a little out of my comfort zone.
But when i do this i always make sure there is someone with me just in case.
Happy 4wding and just remember it about having fun

[MightyMouse]

The man who never makes a mistake - never made anything.

A bit tough now - but in a few years and a few more k's on the clock, you will be telling your mates " thats nothing - once upon a time.... )

[Danzo]

Chop the whole top off it. Straighten anything else, cap and round off edges. Build a full cage. Build in a windscreen. Get some canvas made up and wala...soft top Hilux, now how cool would that be.

X2

[FullbackNo1]

had the same exprience on a hill but no ruts just clay scariest thing i ever did nearly didn't make it i was lucky to stop my car or i would rolled over as i was heading for a steep drop off

[Sic Lux]

Yeah what a Biatch at least it wasn't a round about (a few people on here will get it) always when telling mates about going down hills pick a low gear and just let it idle down can use brake even to the point where it stalls but never put your foot near the clucth even to restart it just hit the key and it'll fire up just fine if the back come out a bit and feels like it's going to come round just feed it a bit to get it straight and the focus on slowing it down again. If it's wet clay it's just a case above and a good dose of good luck and hope for the best.