Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ok, just about to put the winch back on the 4b, and remembered about a plastic doohickey thing that does away with connecting your winch hook to a recovery point.

look here http://www.winchsaver.com/

any comments on these? good/bad/indifferent .....


cheers
Bluey


edit:
i bought a beaver 3.2T clevis hook, but turns out is to big for recovery point. what are peoples suggestions/what hook do you run?

It's not April 1st already is it?

so they are the hiclone equivalent for the winch huh?

i think so...


they cant act as a dampner, its to solid..... you cant dampen something with a hard dampener... (i know its not rock solid, but its not gunna be nearly soft enuf to work on a winch...)

macca81 wrote:they cant act as a dampner, its to solid..... you cant dampen something with a hard dampener... (i know its not rock solid, but its not gunna be nearly soft enuf to work on a winch...)

Maybe it's main purpose is something else

i just had another look on the website, came across a pic of the owner and his son wearing full camo gear, holding shotguns including the kid. lovely piece of advertising lol. guess i'll be giving that idea the flick

any ideas on using hooks or similar that are not the standard that comes with the winch?

thanks

pirate tech had a write up on winches and hooks etc. was a good read about winching safety and all that and at the bottom it had pictures and descriptions of hooks.

Bluey wrote:i just had another look on the website, came across a pic of the owner and his son wearing full camo gear, holding shotguns including the kid. lovely piece of advertising lol. guess i'll be giving that idea the flick

any ideas on using hooks or similar that are not the standard that comes with the winch?

thanks

If you're using a 3.2t clevis hook then you'll need to use shackles to hook it to. As for bullbar (i think this is what you're asking), just hook a 3.2t or 4.8t shackel to existing recovery point and attach clevis hook to that.

---------------

That little device could have been marketable if thought went in to it.

a) As a hook saver it has the potential to sucker a few noobs and tourers.

b) As a cable tensioner, well, refer to half of point a's potential market

c) As a cable dampner, if made to be heavy enough, could be great for non-competition scenarios. No more sliding dampners, dampners getting eaten by winch, etc.

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/ ... 15_1568556


caption competition!

we use it when we play with shiny sticks, so it must be good!




or



we dont think it works, but i hope my 6yo with a gun convinces you otherwise...

hehehe

Red_Zook wrote:

hehehe

maybe, but at least my 4wd goes

Bluey wrote:

Red_Zook wrote:

hehehe

maybe, but at least my 4wd goes

BUILT NOT BOUGHT

Red_Zook wrote:

Bluey wrote:

Red_Zook wrote:

hehehe

maybe, but at least my 4wd goes

BUILT NOT BOUGHT

don't you mean "was building but now I'm having a dummy spit because the rules don't allow unregistered un-engineered 4wd's v's bought".

so does that mean you were going to build your own lockers, compressor, air tank, winch, batteries, tyres etc. c'mon, there are some things that you buy, whether it is (wanna be) comp vehicle or not

if you had actually finished it then you could claim it was "built not bought"

Bluey wrote:

Red_Zook wrote:

Bluey wrote:

Red_Zook wrote:

hehehe

maybe, but at least my 4wd goes

BUILT NOT BOUGHT

don't you mean "was building but now I'm having a dummy spit because the rules don't allow unregistered un-engineered 4wd's v's bought".

so does that mean you were going to build your own lockers, compressor, air tank, winch, batteries, tyres etc. c'mon, there are some things that you buy, whether it is (wanna be) comp vehicle or not

if you had actually finished it then you could claim it was "built not bought"

*** Insert funny "owned" pic here. ***

Bluey wrote:i just had another look on the website, came across a pic of the owner and his son wearing full camo gear, holding shotguns including the kid. lovely piece of advertising lol. guess i'll be giving that idea the flick

any ideas on using hooks or similar that are not the standard that comes with the winch?

thanks

What you want is a Sky Hook... there invaluable in all sorts of situations.

I only took a two second look at the site, but my immediate thought was that it was designed to prevent you having to leave your cable bent around the fairlead to some attachment point and risk damaging your cable. For that purpose, it might work, but then you'd also have to be seriously kinking your cable around a major bend to damage it I'd think, though just having some of the cable permanently exposed at the front could leave it susceptible to damage I spose, where here only the hook gets left exposed.
But then I'm not about to go buy one, and not just cause I don't have a winch.

Bluey wrote:

Red_Zook wrote:

Bluey wrote:

Red_Zook wrote:

hehehe

maybe, but at least my 4wd goes

BUILT NOT BOUGHT

don't you mean "was building but now I'm having a dummy spit because the rules don't allow unregistered un-engineered 4wd's v's bought".

so does that mean you were going to build your own lockers, compressor, air tank, winch, batteries, tyres etc. c'mon, there are some things that you buy, whether it is (wanna be) comp vehicle or not

if you had actually finished it then you could claim it was "built not bought"

oi now come on lance we all know u want my truck!!! haha
well i think when you start as a bair chassi and make all your mounts, engen conversion, tray, cab chop, cage im pretty shore its a fair call for me to say i have "BUILT" my toy!!!

and it would have been a comp truck.. rego is not a issue i have contacts and as we all know tassie engenrs are poo

Red_Zook wrote:rego is not a issue i have contacts

Ezookiel wrote:I only took a two second look at the site, but my immediate thought was that it was designed to prevent you having to leave your cable bent around the fairlead to some attachment point and risk damaging your cable. For that purpose, it might work, but then you'd also have to be seriously kinking your cable around a major bend to damage it I'd think, though just having some of the cable permanently exposed at the front could leave it susceptible to damage I spose, where here only the hook gets left exposed.
But then I'm not about to go buy one, and not just cause I don't have a winch.

Thats what I thaught

If you have your winch cable hooked to the bottom of your bar, then your cable is exposed rolled over the front of your fairlead, any descent tap on this point means cable = farked.

This device means cable = protected in this situation.

This is obviously the main point of the device, they are simply thinking of other things it can also do to make it more marketable. As a damper I would be a little dubious as to its effectiveness. but how much does a traditional cable damper weigh anyway? This thing doesnt look like it will be light. It is probably a big block of urethane or something, which would likely weight a fair bit.

The cable lock ability looks like it could be handy when your spooling in, although ive never done much winching so I dont know how hard it is to spool an unloaded cable.

Im with ezookial though, I dont think id buy one, even if I did have a winch, mostly because of that photo of him in cammo gear lol.

Shadow wrote: This is obviously the main point of the device, they are simply thinking of other things it can also do to make it more marketable. As a damper I would be a little dubious as to its effectiveness. but how much does a traditional cable damper weigh anyway? This thing doesnt look like it will be light. It is probably a big block of urethane or something, which would likely weight a fair bit.

a dampener works because it has enough give to ABSORB recoil. wight has little to do with it. make this thing as heavy as you want but if it has no absorbing properties it just becomes a 2nd missile.

i agree that it would help to protect the winch wire wile at the fairlead, but theres easier ways of doing this. just bringing the hook right upto the fairlead rollers and let it sit between the vertical rollers...

macca81 wrote:

Shadow wrote: This is obviously the main point of the device, they are simply thinking of other things it can also do to make it more marketable. As a damper I would be a little dubious as to its effectiveness. but how much does a traditional cable damper weigh anyway? This thing doesnt look like it will be light. It is probably a big block of urethane or something, which would likely weight a fair bit.

a dampener works because it has enough give to ABSORB recoil. wight has little to do with it. make this thing as heavy as you want but if it has no absorbing properties it just becomes a 2nd missile.

i agree that it would help to protect the winch wire wile at the fairlead, but theres easier ways of doing this. just bringing the hook right upto the fairlead rollers and let it sit between the vertical rollers...

enough give to absorb recoil? Its in the middle of the wire, the end of the wire probably isnt going to hit it, its going to go flying past it, at what point does it absorb anything?

I think it works more because you have a stationary mass at the centre of the cable, when the cable snaps, it goes flying past the stationary mass, and then when all the "slack" is taken up it must accelerate the stationary mass to go any further. Accelerating the stationary mass is what absorbes the kinetic energy AFAIK.

Shadow wrote:

macca81 wrote:

Shadow wrote: This is obviously the main point of the device, they are simply thinking of other things it can also do to make it more marketable. As a damper I would be a little dubious as to its effectiveness. but how much does a traditional cable damper weigh anyway? This thing doesnt look like it will be light. It is probably a big block of urethane or something, which would likely weight a fair bit.

a dampener works because it has enough give to ABSORB recoil. wight has little to do with it. make this thing as heavy as you want but if it has no absorbing properties it just becomes a 2nd missile.

i agree that it would help to protect the winch wire wile at the fairlead, but theres easier ways of doing this. just bringing the hook right upto the fairlead rollers and let it sit between the vertical rollers...

enough give to absorb recoil? Its in the middle of the wire, the end of the wire probably isnt going to hit it, its going to go flying past it, at what point does it absorb anything?

I think it works more because you have a stationary mass at the centre of the cable, when the cable snaps, it goes flying past the stationary mass, and then when all the "slack" is taken up it must accelerate the stationary mass to go any further. Accelerating the stationary mass is what absorbes the kinetic energy AFAIK.

the recoil happens all the way along the wire, not just the far end.
the whole length of the wire is stretched, and when it snaps, the whole length of the wire recoils, taking with it anything that is on it.
the idea of a cable dampener is that it is not attached to the line, merely hanging loosely over it. because it is not attached, the wire recoils under it. so it is at no stage recoiling WITH it. it dampens by catching the cable, essentially in midair, and allowing the energy stored in the cable to be absorbed by the dampener.

works in a similar fashion to sound and vibration dampening. you cant use a hard substance as well because the vibrations travel thru it easily, whereas something with give in it actually absorbs the vibrations... look whats under the carpet in ya car for example...

EDIT: admitedly something heavy would work, but it would have to be heavy enough to drop to the ground virtualy right away to work in any real way... like 10kg type heavy

macca81 wrote:

Shadow wrote:

macca81 wrote:

Shadow wrote: This is obviously the main point of the device, they are simply thinking of other things it can also do to make it more marketable. As a damper I would be a little dubious as to its effectiveness. but how much does a traditional cable damper weigh anyway? This thing doesnt look like it will be light. It is probably a big block of urethane or something, which would likely weight a fair bit.

a dampener works because it has enough give to ABSORB recoil. wight has little to do with it. make this thing as heavy as you want but if it has no absorbing properties it just becomes a 2nd missile.

i agree that it would help to protect the winch wire wile at the fairlead, but theres easier ways of doing this. just bringing the hook right upto the fairlead rollers and let it sit between the vertical rollers...

enough give to absorb recoil? Its in the middle of the wire, the end of the wire probably isnt going to hit it, its going to go flying past it, at what point does it absorb anything?

I think it works more because you have a stationary mass at the centre of the cable, when the cable snaps, it goes flying past the stationary mass, and then when all the "slack" is taken up it must accelerate the stationary mass to go any further. Accelerating the stationary mass is what absorbes the kinetic energy AFAIK.

the recoil happens all the way along the wire, not just the far end.
the whole length of the wire is stretched, and when it snaps, the whole length of the wire recoils, taking with it anything that is on it.
the idea of a cable dampener is that it is not attached to the line, merely hanging loosely over it. because it is not attached, the wire recoils under it. so it is at no stage recoiling WITH it. it dampens by catching the cable, essentially in midair, and allowing the energy stored in the cable to be absorbed by the dampener.

works in a similar fashion to sound and vibration dampening. you cant use a hard substance as well because the vibrations travel thru it easily, whereas something with give in it actually absorbs the vibrations... look whats under the carpet in ya car for example...

EDIT: admitedly something heavy would work, but it would have to be heavy enough to drop to the ground virtualy right away to work in any real way... like 10kg type heavy

Your not damping vibrations, your damping kinetic energy, a cable moving at high speed, Newtons second law of motion applies here. If you had a big fluffy 3 cubic metre pillow that weighed 20grams over the cable, it would do nothing to stop the cable, infact, the wind resistance acting on the pillow would do more to stop the cable recoil than the pillow itself.

The cable has a velocity and a weight, The force on a breaking cable does not distribute evenly over its length, it builds and concentrates significantly toward the broken end.

At most, the cable recoiling within the cable damper would be slowed by some friction, but this would probably be insignificant with anylon bag weighing 1.1kg (this seems to be the weight of some cable damper's)

if this guys winch saver block weighs something similar to a traditional cable damper, i can see no reason why it cant be just as effective.

macca81 wrote:....i agree that it would help to protect the winch wire wile at the fairlead, but theres easier ways of doing this. just bringing the hook right upto the fairlead rollers and let it sit between the vertical rollers...

This would leave a metal block - the hook - sitting up against your metal rollers - the fairlead.
The risk of wearing, or at very least scratching the roller with vibrations over time, is probably the reason why something like this that keeps the metal from the metal, is probably not a bad idea.
However, how our powers-that-be would like the way the hook ends up pointing out the front like some kind of weapon, is another matter all together.

Oh, and my very poor knowledge of physics, is that it takes energy to get an object into motion, and the heavier the object, the more energy it will take to get it into motion.
If this thing weighs a kg or so, and the cable snaps, some of that energy in the recoil will be used up getting the dampener into motion. Hence, if it's using some of that energy up, then it is a "dampener" of sorts, as it's reducing the energy in the recoil.
Of course the other issue then becomes, if the recoil has sufficient energy to get the block into motion and up to a good speed, and have some energy spare, then it just becomes another projectile.
I doubt this would end up being the case, but couldn't prove it, it's just a feeling.

being attached directly to the cable tho, this 'dampener' becomes a part ov that kinetic energy imediatly.
if said dampener was somehow suspended just above the cable and the cable didnt come in contact with it until after it had snapped, then it would work much more effectivly. the main thing stopping it from working is that the cable is virtualy attached straight to it.

vibrations are relevent because they are a form of energy. often a form of kinetic energy. guitar strings vibrate. they move from said vibrations. it is kinetic energy.

macca81 wrote:being attached directly to the cable tho, this 'dampener' becomes a part ov that kinetic energy imediatly.
if said dampener was somehow suspended just above the cable and the cable didnt come in contact with it until after it had snapped, then it would work much more effectivly. the main thing stopping it from working is that the cable is virtualy attached straight to it.

vibrations are relevent because they are a form of energy. often a form of kinetic energy. guitar strings vibrate. they move from said vibrations. it is kinetic energy.

vibrations have nothing to do with a cable snapping that i can see.

You say his cable saver is attached to the cable??? its only as attached as a normal cable damper is, a normal cable damper rest over the cable, his cable saver rest over it aswell, the cable is free to move inside the block of rubber or whatever, just as it is in a normal cable damper.

it locks onto the cable....



vibrations are mearly an example. u said vibrations are different to kinetic energy, when infact they are not. if a solid object is in direct contact with something before it is vibrating, and then you make it vibrate, then said solid object will vibrate with it.
put a soft object in direct contact with something before it is vibrating, then make it vibrate, the soft object will absorb those vibrations and minamise the total movement.

a snapping cable is just one big vibration. your just looking at it to narrowly