Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey what are peoples opinion on HID upgrades but am struggling to find units other than the chinese cheapies found on ebay and other forums want something thats going to last for 4wding. Yes i know they can be fitted but alot of people end up having problems with these units.

I dont want to go the cheap chinese route off ebay, been doing some research, i found a lot of competition vehicles are using a brand in victoria http://www.hidrus.com.au - Distributed by On 4 To U.

What are people opinions of this, i think the prices are reasonable anyway else feel free to comment.

Am looking at doing hid headlight upgrade and hella 4000 upgrade.

What vehicle do you have to put them into the headlights?

HotFourOk wrote:What vehicle do you have to put them into the headlights?

GQ patrol and a GU patrol

As there are legality issues re HID replacements I know for a fact that at least on MAJOR manufacturer of automotive electrical stuff will never market an HID headlight conversion kit.

Made it really easy for customs to seize "black" imports branded as "ABCD"

Now if you extend that to the other big brands, perhaps it explains why conversions seem to be in the realm of the Chinese ?

Pure speculation I admit - but........

Grabbed a Tech-one H4 hi/lo kit in September 05, supposedly Korean made, chucked into GU ute. $320 at the time. No issues with this kit yet, and has done an odd hour or two of night time driving. Don't buy a kit which the actual bulb moves, or a kit which has a halogen hi-beam. (Have never understood this... Hi beam is where HID should be, low beam can be a dolphin torch for all I care)

Yes, stay the hell away from chinese crap. Trust me, - there are heaps of blokes on this list reading this and nodding their head, peeved off at buying them from me. (Many apologies to those peeps...)

Japanese made X-Tec are of decent high quality... and so is the likes of Philips which are around the $1400 to $1600.

I heard that without projector type lamps, there is a bad cutoff with the HID inserts, which looks awful and blinds other drivers?
Can anyone comment on HID installation in standard housings?

I've fitted HID hi/lo in H4 Hella inserts, seem to work well with a good sharp cutoff. No one flashes me so obviously no problem to oncoming vehicles.
When fitting check that the position of the arc is the same as the halogen globe, if so you should have no problems.
As mentioned stick to the better quality HID's that have the rotating shield to dip the beam. don't buy the ones that lean the globe over or that have Halogen for the other beam.

i found a lot of competition vehicles are using a brand in victoria http://www.hidrus.com.au - Distributed by On 4 To U.

Steve here from On 4 to U, Yes we do supply a lot of the comp trucks so our Hid systems are give a fairly rough testing and are standing up to it.

I used to sell the xtec brand but had to replace all the sliding type h4 hi/lows. Each and every one of them failed. So I now use a dual globe system for the hi/lows which is very reliable. We can supply a projector type insert in 7" round or 9" rectangular, if you are concerned about the cut off.

I personally can't see the logic in buying only 1/2 a HID (especially if the hi beam is the halogen but the theory behind it is that you spend more time on low beam so need the Hid there)

We can supply single beam conversions for any globe type in 35 or 50 watt, and headlight uprages in 35, 50 and 70w. All standard kits come with an 18month replacement warranty.

New anodised aluminium heat sinks are available for the lightforce and the 100w XGT's are now available.

If I can help with anything just pm me or call.

After trying a couple of sets of sliding type H4 globes and finding them rubbish I went for these http://www.fuelsaver.com.au/shop/produc ... 7a56ca6e62

I have been using them for 12 months now and find them very good. Ignore the other products from the seller. The HID kit is excellent.

Ian

How do the twin bulb HIDs go when dipping between hi and low.
Is there any noticable delay or dim period as the HID fires up?

on4tou wrote: but the theory behind it is that you spend more time on low beam so need the Hid there)

Interesting - I thought it was that the HID system was significantly stressed during initial starting and that if continually cycled ( as in high beam ) would lead to premature tube and possibly electronics failures.

I also though that the progressive light up of HID systems also made them less suitable for high beam systems.

If you look into the lighting technology texts you will understand why mechanical shutters etc are used - to avoid cycling of HID systems.

So the use of Halogen highbeams and HID lows has more engineering behind it that it may appear.

...but the halogen bulb running at 600 degree's which is 3mm away from the HID low beam bulb stoofs the glass... leading to premature failure.
On some cheapy kits, the halogen bulb is actually glued on to the HID bulb.

HID bulbs are only designed to rnu around the 150 degree mark. Or at least a 45 watt is.

Im not sure where I read about it but I am certain I read that HIDs as replacements for the vehicles standard headlights are illegal unless there are a heap of other features fitted as well which makes it not worthwhile doing.

However fitting them to driving lights is OK.

I will see if I can find the relevant information and post it up.

There is a push on in several states in the US to ban HID's outright unless they are factory fitment.

I give up, I cant find the specific article I was looking for but I do know that HIDs for headlights are illegal without auto levelling.........whatever that is.

And its pretty hard to hide the fact you have them so I dont think its a good idea.
Driving lights............go for it.

ausyota wrote:How do the twin bulb HIDs go when dipping between hi and low.
Is there any noticable delay or dim period as the HID fires up?

With the system I use there is no noticeable delay in switching from High to low and back again once the lights are warm, ie been switched for the first time, and even then it is only a second or two. If the lenses you are using are good quality there should be no more glare than halogen lights. I have never had anyone flash me when on low beam. As far as auto levelling is concerned I drive a Rangie with a ride leveler and headlight washers.
The only reason that I can see that people would be against HID lights is that they dont have them or read crap that others write. As for being illegal how many people drive a totally roadworthy legal 4wd anyway, maybe Overlander forum people but certainly not outers people.

bushy555 wrote:...but the halogen bulb running at 600 degree's which is 3mm away from the HID low beam bulb stoofs the glass... leading to premature failure.
On some cheapy kits, the halogen bulb is actually glued on to the HID bulb.

HID bulbs are only designed to rnu around the 150 degree mark. Or at least a 45 watt is.

Can you give me the car manufacturer / model that puts the high beam lamp 3mm from the HID ? I'm not talking about crap kits, I am talking proper lighting systems.

And yes to be legal you require self leveling ( lights adjust up and down for different loads ) and washers and even then the optics are different as the actual area of light generation in an HID is a different shape and a differing optical power density to an incandescent filament. I have seen plots with HID conversion kits where the long range illuminance was significantly worse than with Halogen lamps, yes it was brighter right in front but.....

Even vehicles that use HID "high" and low beam actually don't do it simply, they use electromechanical shutters to change the projected light pattern - and the "projection system" is essential.

And then there's the issue of the high voltages involved in starting. Its a challenge to insulate things for 20KV restart pulses in a road car, just imagine how much worse its going to be with a half baked kit in a 4WD that actually goes off road.

I like HID's. In a properly designed system they are great and in specifically designed driving lights they are mindblowing.

If your keen on bling then convert regardless, but if you actually want decent lighting at night then think a lot harder.

[/Rant]

And its pretty hard to hide the fact you have them so I dont think its a good idea.

IMHO HID lights are common enough as OEM lighting that not to many people including the wallopers are going to think twice about them.

I fitted cheap chinese ebay crap Hi/Lo HID conversion in my 80 and agree with others here, reliability is dubious (I have a failed ballast after 6months use) so they are really not good value for money. Warranty??? dont think so

Having said that it was a cheap way to improve my lighting from a couple of candle power to lighting up the raod, signs, road reflectors etc 5-600m down the road, HID light seems to pick up signs reflectors better than halogens. the road side is also brightly lit far enough ahead to be really appreciated in most conditions. Was an easy install too, no relays need as with high watt halogens.

The focus of the light is obviously different than it is with OEM HIDs, When first installed the HID obviously annoyed people, but after adjusting the focus of my lights down and to the left a little it no longer peeves people in front or approaching me. Id say with a lifted 4by a change to high wattage halogens would also need lights to be refocused.

If your prepared to spend the coin I reckon going for aftermarket projector lenses would be the best option.
I reckon the level of waterproofing could be a downfall if you going to be in deep water/mud etc

Legalities are all in ADR 77 and ADR 78. ADR 77 is about 60 pages in length, ADR78 is about 50.

Self levelling headlight housings --- some sort of a sensor contected from rear diff to body with a motorised unit connected to headlioght housings. If got a load in the rear, light housings dip lower than their normal set level.

Nothing over 4300k in colour temperature and nothing over 35 watts per bulb. Headlight housings must meet either Euro or US HID spread patterns, and be suitably marked. Headlight housings must also have headlight washers (not sure about wipers).

Bulbs must also meet certain criteria.

So... unfortunately me 3 vehicles are all a tad bit illegal technically... along with a hell of a lot of Euro cars that come with HID lighting from the factory! They arent meeting them thar ADR's.


> I'm not talking about crap kits, I am talking proper lighting systems.
oh, ok, I was talking about crap kits.

bushy555 wrote:Legalities are all in ADR 77 and ADR 78. ADR 77 is about 60 pages in length, ADR78 is about 50.

Self levelling headlight housings --- some sort of a sensor contected from rear diff to body with a motorised unit connected to headlioght housings. If got a load in the rear, light housings dip lower than their normal set level.

Nothing over 4300k in colour temperature and nothing over 35 watts per bulb. Headlight housings must meet either Euro or US HID spread patterns, and be suitably marked. Headlight housings must also have headlight washers (not sure about wipers).

Bulbs must also meet certain criteria.

So... unfortunately me 3 vehicles are all a tad bit illegal technically... along with a hell of a lot of Euro cars that come with HID lighting from the factory! They arent meeting them thar ADR's.


> I'm not talking about crap kits, I am talking proper lighting systems.
oh, ok, I was talking about crap kits.

Something of a change in tune since this thread http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... 0&start=30

> Something of a change in tune since this thread

Erm, Obviously I'm a tad bit dopey. You'll need to explain that reference to me as though I'm a three year old.


<edit>
I re-read this bit....
Original peeved off problem of my headlight housing H4 hi/lo HID's was in fact my fault - use of a second hand dodgy relay. Replaced, and everything has been fine since. No problems with the ballast or bulb. My oops.

are you guys kidding I have 130watt high beam and that is more than enough for the odd drive on a non street light rd.If you live outside off the main built up area of a town I can see you wanting a bit more but why not use spoties

frp88 wrote:are you guys kidding I have 130watt high beam and that is more than enough for the odd drive on a non street light rd.If you live outside off the main built up area of a town I can see you wanting a bit more but why not use spoties

You obviously have never used HID lights. The quaity of the HID light is so much better. Street signs, white lines etc or picked up much better and are clearer and the light is a far more natural clour, white, not yellow like halogen globes.

frp88 wrote:are you guys kidding I have 130watt high beam and that is more than enough for the odd drive on a non street light rd.If you live outside off the main built up area of a town I can see you wanting a bit more but why not use spoties

yep so you have have 260w for both headlights. Well and equivilent light output from a 50w each headlight would equal that. So 260W for halogen or 100w for HID.
Add that to the rest of the crap thats sucking power from the battery. Including the 4 other lights. And the Alt which is only 60amps. Starts to lose.
I have gone from 780w of light to 270w. And now the alt has a chance of keeping up.

Turps has certainly highlighted one of the significant reasons OE's are moving to HID's - current alternators are at about the practical output limit, yet the electrical demand just keeps growing.

The use of projection optics instead of reflectors also offers significant improvements in output "pattern" control, an area thats a bit hit and miss with current systems.

So any partial solution to this increasing demand is applied, the load reductions offered by HID's are significant.

However just because its a great solution when you get to design from scratch doesn't overcome all the conversion problems.

Sorry I should have been clearer in what I was refering to..

Thanks for clarifiying my post

I have HIDs from the factory in my car and have no washers or self leveling. Why is that?

not knowing the year of manufacture I can't speculate what ADR's were in force at the time.

Needless to say you can't be forced to upgrade a system that was legal at the time of certification.

However modifications are different - they are required to meet current rules

turps wrote:

frp88 wrote:are you guys kidding I have 130watt high beam and that is more than enough for the odd drive on a non street light rd.If you live outside off the main built up area of a town I can see you wanting a bit more but why not use spoties

yep so you have have 260w for both headlights. Well and equivilent light output from a 50w each headlight would equal that. So 260W for halogen or 100w for HID.
Add that to the rest of the crap thats sucking power from the battery. Including the 4 other lights. And the Alt which is only 60amps. Starts to lose.
I have gone from 780w of light to 270w. And now the alt has a chance of keeping up.

I think you guys are missing my point how often do you drive with all your spoties and high beam on during the week

Everyday to work!