Outer Limits 4x4 Board

What sort of power and torque increases can be expected when an EFI 5.0 is stroked to 355 Cui.

Thanks.

not enough.

simkell wrote:not enough.

WTF, it's a legitimate question.

Anyone who knows what they are talking about who can help?

Cheers

heaps more tourqe

Personally Not enough

I personally dont think that there is enough power and drivablity for the money spend UNLESS your getting it real cheap.

It also depends many differant things you do.

Heads what are they ? Is it Single throttle body or Twin ? What compression are you going to run ? What injection system are you going to use, STD or aftermarket ? What are you going to tune it for HP or Torque ? What cam are you going to use.

These are all things that will determine your HP increase.

I had a 355 stroker in a WB ute, I wouldn't have spent the money to do it it was already in there but we ended up taking it out and putting a 400ci corvette motor in and it went heaps better.

Similar sort of HP but much more drivable.

Nick

itll be plenty. lots of torque and alot of power. VN heads flow 500HP so they wont be an issue. a nice cam and twin throttles will give you the power you might want without the hastle of stroking it

Well HSV stroked the 304 out to a 5.7L and it went from 165kw (Holden) or 185kw(HSV 5L) out to 215kw(Senator 5.7L).

Here's a bit of an example I found... for a 383 though.

Just completed 304 rebuild to 383. Used; COME crank, scat rods, forged flat tops @ 11:1, stock heads, cam - 222in &230ext "0.50, 1.6:1 roller rockers, twin GRA throttle bodies, makes 230rwkw

A lot of work and money for a relatively small gain when comparing to forced induction applications etc.

HotFourOk wrote:Well HSV stroked the 304 out to a 5.7L and it went from 165kw (Holden) or 185kw(HSV 5L) out to 215kw(Senator 5.7L).

Here's a bit of an example I found... for a 383 though.

Just completed 304 rebuild to 383. Used; COME crank, scat rods, forged flat tops @ 11:1, stock heads, cam - 222in &230ext "0.50, 1.6:1 roller rockers, twin GRA throttle bodies, makes 230rwkw

A lot of work and money for a relatively small gain when comparing to forced induction applications etc.

Yeah but it sounds mad

Mate in Sydney has a 5.7L HSV

He wont let me drive it

HotFourOk wrote:Well HSV stroked the 304 out to a 5.7L and it went from 165kw (Holden) or 185kw(HSV 5L) out to 215kw(Senator 5.7L).

Here's a bit of an example I found... for a 383 though.

Just completed 304 rebuild to 383. Used; COME crank, scat rods, forged flat tops @ 11:1, stock heads, cam - 222in &230ext "0.50, 1.6:1 roller rockers, twin GRA throttle bodies, makes 230rwkw

A lot of work and money for a relatively small gain when comparing to forced induction applications etc.

So what would all those parts be worth, plus labour to do, compared to buying an LS1 and getting similar power straight up? I'm no mecahnic, just a simple question.

Depends on heads and other things but for interest sake I did a couple of old red headed 308's some years ago with basically the same camshaft and valve size, porting etc. The 5.7 was good for about 20-25 kw more and peak power was about 500 lower in the rpm.

Joel

beretta wrote:

HotFourOk wrote:Well HSV stroked the 304 out to a 5.7L and it went from 165kw (Holden) or 185kw(HSV 5L) out to 215kw(Senator 5.7L).

Here's a bit of an example I found... for a 383 though.

Just completed 304 rebuild to 383. Used; COME crank, scat rods, forged flat tops @ 11:1, stock heads, cam - 222in &230ext "0.50, 1.6:1 roller rockers, twin GRA throttle bodies, makes 230rwkw

A lot of work and money for a relatively small gain when comparing to forced induction applications etc.

So what would all those parts be worth, plus labour to do, compared to buying an LS1 and getting similar power straight up? I'm no mecahnic, just a simple question.

I thought that either a stroker kit or supercharger started at about $6g baseline price and worked up from there... I'm no expert either.
This example would be more, due to cam change, and twin throttle bodies.

Thanks guys, maybe I would be better chasing torque through cams and chips?

I have seen the stroker kits for about $2.5k I think and that's before fitting, probably get a decent cam and chip for less.

It's torque I am chasing, would like to go from the existing 330 Nm to about 400 Nm.

Cheers

remember most replies here are about 308 carb motors not 304 efi. the 304 has awsome heads when stroking.

Struth wrote:Thanks guys, maybe I would be better chasing torque through cams and chips?

I have seen the stroker kits for about $2.5k I think and that's before fitting, probably get a decent cam and chip for less.

It's torque I am chasing, would like to go from the existing 330 Nm to about 400 Nm.

Cheers

Longer stroke=more torque, but if your stroking, you'll be doing cam, and you need to tune the delco, not chips, to do it properly

If you can't build it yourself, or have a mate, its gonna cost way to much

I was talking EFI 5L, Its not worth the money.

Just drop in a 400CI small block.

Nick

HotFourOk wrote:Well HSV stroked the 304 out to a 5.7L and it went from 165kw (Holden) or 185kw(HSV 5L) out to 215kw(Senator 5.7L).

Here's a bit of an example I found... for a 383 though.

Just completed 304 rebuild to 383. Used; COME crank, scat rods, forged flat tops @ 11:1, stock heads, cam - 222in &230ext "0.50, 1.6:1 roller rockers, twin GRA throttle bodies, makes 230rwkw

A lot of work and money for a relatively small gain when comparing to forced induction applications etc.

Especially when a Gen 3 will make that with a cam and tune

if you do a 355 stroker make sure you get the lifter bores aligned we built one and had a problem with it always chewing out camshafts did this problem solved

400's are hand grenades.

stroking a 5l is not worth it when there are already engines that are of similar size or larger to a 355 that would be cheaper to buy as crate motor than to to stroke the 5l.

but if you want a holden engine than yes there is no substitute for cubic inches. the increased stroke will provide more torque at lower revs and a horsepower increase as well. Chev parts are plentiful and are cheap and reliable. if i was to stroke a 5l i would be looking at 383 for the low down torque.

HotFourOk wrote:Well HSV stroked the 304 out to a 5.7L and it went from 165kw (Holden) or 185kw(HSV 5L) out to 215kw(Senator 5.7L).

Here's a bit of an example I found... for a 383 though.

Just completed 304 rebuild to 383. Used; COME crank, scat rods, forged flat tops @ 11:1, stock heads, cam - 222in &230ext "0.50, 1.6:1 roller rockers, twin GRA throttle bodies, makes 230rwkw

A lot of work and money for a relatively small gain when comparing to forced induction applications etc.

Or buy a stock Gen3 and make 245RWKW......complete motor 1.5-2k

cloughy wrote:

HotFourOk wrote:Well HSV stroked the 304 out to a 5.7L and it went from 165kw (Holden) or 185kw(HSV 5L) out to 215kw(Senator 5.7L).

Here's a bit of an example I found... for a 383 though.

Just completed 304 rebuild to 383. Used; COME crank, scat rods, forged flat tops @ 11:1, stock heads, cam - 222in &230ext "0.50, 1.6:1 roller rockers, twin GRA throttle bodies, makes 230rwkw

A lot of work and money for a relatively small gain when comparing to forced induction applications etc.

Especially when a Gen 3 will make that with a cam and tune

Will make more stock, very very small cam will make 270+ at wheels.....no i'm not getting this info from a book or the net but my own car.

NutterGQ wrote:

cloughy wrote:

HotFourOk wrote:Well HSV stroked the 304 out to a 5.7L and it went from 165kw (Holden) or 185kw(HSV 5L) out to 215kw(Senator 5.7L).

Here's a bit of an example I found... for a 383 though.

Just completed 304 rebuild to 383. Used; COME crank, scat rods, forged flat tops @ 11:1, stock heads, cam - 222in &230ext "0.50, 1.6:1 roller rockers, twin GRA throttle bodies, makes 230rwkw

A lot of work and money for a relatively small gain when comparing to forced induction applications etc.

Especially when a Gen 3 will make that with a cam and tune

Will make more stock, very very small cam will make 270+ at wheels.....no i'm not getting this info from a book or the net but my own car.

230KW is near 310HP, small cam for torque, some springs because they're as soft as shit, a decent exhaust and tune and you'll just about get it, so about the same, if your getting 270RWKW with just a cam, your tuner is fudging the dyno big time

The strokers charecteristics will still be torquey more so than the gen 3, but you wont get the economy like a standard gen 3 or better

And its ok I'm not pulling your pud, I put one in my jag

But expect to make less horsepower in a 4wd

A GEN 3 with a small cam and a bit of head work, good exhaust and intake in a manual commodore is good for about 250rwkW on my dyno 270 rwkW on a Dyno Dynamics in shoot 8, have backed to backed this a few times.
Stick it in a 4wd with transfer case, big diff, bigger tyres and watch that figure drop to about 210rwkW on my dyno, same package.

If you own a 5.0L efi a stroker crank $1200 and ACL race series rebuild kit with the right pistons (higher pin boss to suit std rods) about $900.
$2000 in machining and assembly without touching your heads, it soon adds up but, a gen 3 will need accessories, power steer, thermo fans, new mounts etc, not just 2k to throw in a second hand motor, be aware of the total cost involved before deciding.

Joel

NutterGQ wrote:

cloughy wrote:

HotFourOk wrote:Well HSV stroked the 304 out to a 5.7L and it went from 165kw (Holden) or 185kw(HSV 5L) out to 215kw(Senator 5.7L).

Here's a bit of an example I found... for a 383 though.

Just completed 304 rebuild to 383. Used; COME crank, scat rods, forged flat tops @ 11:1, stock heads, cam - 222in &230ext "0.50, 1.6:1 roller rockers, twin GRA throttle bodies, makes 230rwkw

A lot of work and money for a relatively small gain when comparing to forced induction applications etc.

Especially when a Gen 3 will make that with a cam and tune

Will make more stock, very very small cam will make 270+ at wheels.....no i'm not getting this info from a book or the net but my own car.

As said, your dyno tuner is probably in jail right now for fraud.
At least you think he is doing a good job and earning his money telling you what you want to hear.
Please post up your dyno sheets.

HotFourOk wrote:

NutterGQ wrote:

cloughy wrote:

HotFourOk wrote:Well HSV stroked the 304 out to a 5.7L and it went from 165kw (Holden) or 185kw(HSV 5L) out to 215kw(Senator 5.7L).

Here's a bit of an example I found... for a 383 though.

Just completed 304 rebuild to 383. Used; COME crank, scat rods, forged flat tops @ 11:1, stock heads, cam - 222in &230ext "0.50, 1.6:1 roller rockers, twin GRA throttle bodies, makes 230rwkw

A lot of work and money for a relatively small gain when comparing to forced induction applications etc.

Especially when a Gen 3 will make that with a cam and tune

Will make more stock, very very small cam will make 270+ at wheels.....no i'm not getting this info from a book or the net but my own car.

As said, your dyno tuner is probably in jail right now for fraud.
At least you think he is doing a good job and earning his money telling you what you want to hear.
Please post up your dyno sheets.

I don't need to and wont prove myself to you facts are facts....Tremec T56 and car tyres, also backed by 12.8 at 114MPH at 1850KG on nankang (povo) tyres, no cam no head work un opened, stop tugging go to ls1.com.au and tell the thousands of them there dyno figures are all 40-50kw to high even though all the times are there to back it.

For a 5 litre to make the same power is a waste of thousands and thousands of $$






http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=70123


For fun from LS1.com a few quotes




A / 253rwkw ,Comp 222x224 / 2800TC / 3.9’s / RE55’s 11.946 @ 116.25mph
B / 266rwkw ,Comp 232x234 / 4600TC / 4.11’s / MT Drag Radials 11.501 @ 117mph
C / 277rwkw ,Comp 242x248 / 6000TC / 4.11’s / MT drag Radials 11.018 @ 121.91mph 1640KG


comp 222/224 cam, psi springs, 25% ud,
tri-y pacies + twin 2.5" exhaust
3.9s
a very nice lumpy idle, and absolutely hauls arse right through the rev range
tends to be a bit cherky when she is cold though
fuel consumtion bit rough, only had the cam in for 3 days
end result 277rwkw which was a 74rwkw gain over my previous mafless tune
best money i have spent on my car

Comp Cam 220/224 @ 112, 254rwkw/745nm
UD Pulley, DF 4-1 1 7/8 Header into twin 3inch
3.9s, A4
lumpy idle, but not too lumpy, 10.8-10.9 on hwy, 18-20s around town.



Anyway I'm pulling out of this thread becuase it seems some of you just cant accept things for what they are, may you all fight amongst yourselves .

cloughy wrote:if your getting 270RWKW with just a cam, your tuner is fudging the dyno big time

NutterGQ wrote:
comp 222/224 cam, psi springs, 25% ud,
tri-y pacies + twin 2.5" exhaust
3.9s
.

Bit more than just a camshaft

So I'd believe you figures as they are, but of the high horse matey

It'd be those 3.9's that are getting him that time. bloody 6spd SS's rev at 1500rpm at 100kmh 3.07 to 3.9 would make the car a weapon

mule75 wrote:400's are hand grenades.

my arse they are hand grenades.