Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Ok, the 4.4 is in and driving. Picked it up from the exhaust shop last night and drove it home. I have done probably about 100kms on it already and it seems pretty good. I'm already thinking of ways to get a bit more oomph out of it though. The following issues still need to be sorted out and have me a bit stumped:

1. Irratic idle when in Drive/Reverse - the idle is fine when in neutral and can be altered up/down without a problem. It seems though that when the car is in Drive/Reverse it doesn't idle so well. It drops down to about 400rpm and is very close to stalling but then (mostly) increases back up to the idle speed after a couple of seconds;

2. The first time we fired it up, we believed it had an airlock in the cooling system. We think that it still may be there or alternatively something else is not quite right. I've been cautious about this motor overheating, as 4.4's tend to do. After going for a drive, a fair bit of water escapes from the expansion pipe and you can still here it bubbling away afterwards. Could it not be an airlock and perhaps something wrong with the radiator? The temperature gauge is sitting under half so it doesn't look like its actually overheating.

3. At the moment it only runs on petrol, but the gas wont work. We can get the tank to switch over to gas but after about 3 seconds it runs out of gas (there is still plenty in the tank).

4. We have one plug left over on the passenger side near the coil. It is similar to an injector plug in appearance but we have no idea wtf it is for. It runs from the coil and is earthed, but doesn't seem to go anywhere. Maybe this mystery plug will solve all my problems?

BTW, its still running the 3.5 injection and airflow meter which may have something to do with it (although i hope not).

TIA.

for a start to get it running/ idleing better you would need to remap your computer get an aftermarket computer mianly because the 4.4 runs more manifold vacuum/flows more air thru the air flow meter this is what causes the hunting idle.
with the over heating it is the same the computer would run it to lean making it run hot and the standard ignition curve of the 3.5 wouldn't suit the 4.4.
when you say it wont run on gas do you mean it wont idle, the gas will need to be retuned to the 4.4.

On gas it will start up but within three seconds it will shut down due to lack of gas it seems. I was aware that i might need to change the gas ring on the system, however i dont think that is what's causing the problems at the moment as it completely shuts down indicating that no gas is coming through.

if it starts and idles for like 3 secs and stalls it is likely that the idle mix needs turning up on the gas convertor it will be one of the adjusting screws which one depends on the convertor.

TuffRR wrote:On gas it will start up but within three seconds it will shut down due to lack of gas it seems. I was aware that i might need to change the gas ring on the system, however i dont think that is what's causing the problems at the moment as it completely shuts down indicating that no gas is coming through.

Thanks, i'll have a look at that tonight.

can the bubbles be a sign of a blown head gasket??

surely not....

TuffRR wrote:Thanks, i'll have a look at that tonight.

There will be two screws one will control idle gas flow and the other controls the gas flow under acceleration. Winding the screw out
lets more gas through and makes it richer. When you start off it is nearly a two man job, one to keep the car alive in the drivers seat and one to make the adjustments. Smell the exhaust while tuning the idle for clues.

Good Luck
Tom

This is what shits me with LPG on any EFI Rangie. On carbies, they seem to be able to work well on both, but EFI it's a nightmare

I used to own a 93 Disco with LPG and I was forever trying to get it to run right on both. LPG was okay, but petrol was shithouse and I could NEVER get it to run well.

Hope you figure it out soon. Good luck.

Trav

Aquarangie wrote:This is what shits me with LPG on any EFI Rangie. On carbies, they seem to be able to work well on both, but EFI it's a nightmare

I used to own a 93 Disco with LPG and I was forever trying to get it to run right on both. LPG was okay, but petrol was shithouse and I could NEVER get it to run well.

Hope you figure it out soon. Good luck.

Trav

My poor old dunga struggles Trav it is a compromise which ever way you go mate. The carbies do run really well from time to time but the run rich on fuel. Take the bad with the $0.35 a litre I suppose

Tom

This is why I'll never fit LPG to my Rangie, too much comprimise.

The fuel bill isn't too bad compared to what it used to be (only drive my Rangie to work 3 days a week now, not 6 like before!!), plus LPG is hard to get once you leave Brissie (may have changed since I last had a LPG Landie).

My attitude to my fuel bill, don't worry about it and drive it hard and fast everywhere. Won't make much diffrence anyway to economy, it's shit anyway

At least your'e saving money I suppose.

Trav

so how did you go does it run alright now???

TuffRR wrote:Thanks, i'll have a look at that tonight.

I have spoken to TuffRR a few times and he got halfway to ballarat

apperently it started blowing white smoke and some ratling from the back on the engine....... and it wont start anymore.....

he should be back in melbourne (thanks RACV) later on today with some more info...

Geeze, what a shitty weekend!!!!!

Got half way to Ballarat and the temperature gauge was saying everything was fine. A knocking sound started under load on the hills which mostly went away on the flat. About this stage, I noticed that it smelt a bit hot so I got out to have a look.

Oil and coolant were everywhere underneath and the cooling system was bubbling away. My battery was now dead (another issue i have to look into) so i couldn't get the thing running properly again. I had an early appointment in Ballarat so Dad came and got me in his 130 and took me into town.

Ended up getting a trailer to tow the car back (RACV would have cost more). Picked up the trailer with Dad's 130 and was driving away when the clutch on the 130 wouldn't disengage. The 130's only done 55,000kms so another example of fine land rover reliability.

MickRangie came over yesterday to help pull the phucker apart. First thing we noticed when we got the thing running was cooland and oil pissing out the from under the passenger side heads.
First problem - blown head gasket. Also noticed plenty of oil and smoke on the spark plugs which would explain the smoke/steam.

Unbolting the heads, we noticed that where the gasket had failed, the head bolts around that area had come quite loose. We were also finding little plastic parts of o-rings in the rocker covers which we later found had come from the heads. We think these are the valve stem seals?

So these are the symptoms, but whats the actual cause? My theory at the moment is that the radiator is the cause of the problem. I think this would explain the original problem in the cooling system, and the blown head gasket happened as a result of overheating. But would the overheating cause the o-rings/seals from the heads to disintegrate or is this a warranty issue i should take up with the place that reco'd them.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, there were a couple of things i learnt from all this:
1. Extra care with the RACV is of little value. They wanted to charge me $3kms for everything beyond the first 20kms leaving about 50kms for me to pay for ($150). Much cheaper to hire a trailer!!!!
2. Exide/Marshall Batteries have excellent warranty service - They replaced my Exide Extreme battery which was a year and a half old for free. Cheers to Repco for coming to the party.
3. Shit like this always happens before a long weekend to stuff up your plans!!!

At this stage, I've ordered a 3.9 radiator which is an upgrade from my current one, and I'll put it all back together over the next while.

Does the board think that the radiator is the problem or could something else present the same symptoms?

TIA.

Not the rad.

My aluminium rad has a few corrosion issues at the moment so I have refitted the std 1986 rover rad, no cooling isues so far, refitted the rover rad in december and is still in it.

Michael.

The last time i took it out with the 3.5 in it, it overheated in the bush. The radiator seems to be the common element between the old motor and the 4.4. If not the radiator, what else?

is the rad clean in and out, (core condition.)

what fans are you running these days, air flow through engine bay/radiator, timing.
Any thing blocking air, winch lights.

Michael.

All of the above is not ideal ATM:
- radiator was full of mud when we rinsed it out;
- running std RR fans
- have highmount winch and spotlights in front of grille
So airflow wouldn't be ideal. The radiator has been repaired before and it looks like its only running 2 cores.

it's good policy to have your radiator cleaned out every year, much cheaper than cooking your engine!!

I had my 92 Rangie radiator cleaned out for about $140 before Christmas and it was 45% blocked

The reason was the temp guage was a tad higher than usuall and it was a bloody hot day. Glad it happened in Brisbane, not out in the mulga off-roading!!

Regards,

Trav

Very sorry to hear about your problems.

Rangie radiators are cross flow. Gravity causes deposits in cooling water to block the lower tubes (in a normal radiator they would sit in the bottom tank and not cause blockage). The tanks have to be removed to rod the tubes out.

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but.....

If the the head was sus anyway wouldn't the gasses from the exhuast cause the pressure in the cooling system? which would give it similar symptoms to an air lock?


Seeing all of this first hand (but not knowing much) i fink the people that built the heads are farking morons.... i'll let TuffRR explain it all...

Mick

You better tell me what you know already slacker......

After speaking to a few guys about what has caused this problem, we have now pointed the finger squarely at the guys who reco'd the heads. It seems that the stem seals they used were just standard o-rings, which is why they failed. It also appears that the heads went soft, a problem that should have been noticed when they were crack testing the heads before they reco'd them.

Now i just have to rip the other head off and get them to fix the problem. I don't think its too much to ask for them to pay for the cost of replacing gaskets etc either.

I still have the 3.9 radiator on the way too. I could keep running the 3.5 one, but with the 3.9 one I'm getting an inbuilt transmission cooler and engine oil cooler as well which surely cant hurt.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I'll give another update when things are progressing.

out of interest how much water did i take to fill youe coolig system? best way i have found is to park on a slight incline with the front or the car facing up fill the system open the heater tap run the car to operating temp an top up as required. from a mechanicspoint of view it sounds like she had a blown head gasket from day one. the loose head bolts would have been caused be the gasket being crushed when she got hot cauising the bolts to loose tension. the bubbling inth cooling system would have more then likely been cause by the exhaust gases pressuring the cooling system. quickiest way to diagnose this? put a cooling system analyiser on you rad if the pressure climbs up to the relief or past relief on the guage on start up u got a blown head gasket fer sure

From memory, i think i put about 7 or 8 litres of water in after it occurred.

I have been in contact with the place that reco'd the heads and they were willing to cover any expenses incurred if their work caused the problem. They even offered to rebuild the motor for me.

We still haven't completely nutted out the problem. The guys who reco'd the heads put a fair bit of effort into determining what actually caused the problem and it seems that:
a) the heads weren't set right based for the cam specs. Note this would not cause the overheating problem, but may account for the fawked valve seals;
b) the block was most likely boiling on one side which caused the LH side head to go soft.

The latest theory at the moment is that the oil and coolant lines may be leaking into each somewhere, which from what i understand explains most of the symptoms. Hopefully we should be able to test this theory soon enough. Does anyone know the best way to check this?

As far as head gaskets go for your job, as I understand it, if you have 10 bolt heads you should use composite gaskets whereas if your heads are 14 bolt then the tin gaskets do the job. FYI I used the composite gaskets.

As far as tips for doing the job yourself goes, you'll need plenty of patience and beer. Those last headbolts near the firewall are a real PITA!!!!

Anyhow good luck with it

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llsteve

Is a real expert on V8's

as you'll see from his posts.

if you need help I'm sure he would advise.....

Hey guys, Look I'm no mechanic however i had a similar problem a while ago.. What i found was a few things, however the main reason for my problems was that the plenium was not air tight this along with the head gaskets was causing major problems as far as (air bubble injection) into the cooling system. as it was mainlythe left bank sucking i had good readings on the temp gauge.. Fit a VDO temp gauge so you get real temp readings as the standard rover item will tell you that it is over heating at 92 deg (normaly). far from farking the engine. Be sure you dont have oil leaks as this will effect you tempgauge if the conections are coated in it..

As for the LPG I run it and have more H/P yet less torque and i have never had any problem other than moisture in the dissy, go and seee Steve at Ausgas he is a god darn guru for rangie gas systems.

As for the valve thing i cant help you.. I hope you sort out the problem..

Best of luck.. as I said I'm no mechanic however I have had a similar incedent... Air leaks in the plenium can cause all sorts of long term problems (espesially omn gas) as a Rangie is like a woman... Knows how to push the right buttons to piss you off...

Cheers,

bEN