Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I apologise in advance.
I'd like to buy a 4wd sometime in the future (could be two years at this rate) but, there is the question of what to buy, or atleast look at and consider.
I'm poor, and cheap, so whatever it is, it's going to be beaten up and will probably rattle like loose change.
One thing playing in my mind is whether to care or not about a coil v leaf sprung vehicle.
Do I really need a coil sprung vehicle that's only going to be used for bounding around the bush on weekends? Please answer that, as it's driving me nuts.
All I hear is "go coils, they're way better and more comfortable", but that doesnt exactly explain a lot to me other than someones opinion (why are they better, do I care about comfort for a bleeding offroad vehicle, how uncomfortable is uncomfortable etc).

And no, I dont want a sierra.

So this leaves me with the options of:
A GQ - I'd like one of these as I like largish vehicles and they seem to be very popular for various reasons in the offroading world but they're the most expensive of anything I would look at, and finding one on gas and with a few mods (to save myself paying to get them done) is, in my mind, a little too hopeful.

A Range Rover - I'd have to find one with the axles already done (changed) and on gas. People seem to love RRs or hate them, sadly I dont know why people hate them so it leaves me a little uneasy contemplating an RR. Mmm oil leaks.

An MQ - Well they're cheap, that's something we have in common, but they're leaf sprung. Really I dont know of anything bad or good about past that.

An Lj70 or bundera. - Well there's a nice one for sale nearby that's modified and the only thing I could think of it needing is a winch. But I dont know if it's engineered and short wheelbase vehicles scare me a little. And it's leaf sprung.

A hilux - I'd really like an 1989 era triton dual cab, but they're all IFS as far as I know, oh yeah the hilux, well it's a car with wheels etc.

And no, I dont want a sierra.


So in conclusion, should I care about the leaf v coil?
Should I save for a GQ even if it takes me two decades?
Do you have a money tree you could lend me so I could buy that racing GQ ute in the classified section?

Oh, and whatever I buy, other than being on gas, it has to have power steering.
Thankyou for reading my essay.

It seems your not considering diesel? Why?

Coil VS Leaf. Well, leaf is fine. Nothing wrong with them in fact they have a few advantages. But main advantage of coils is comfort, and they tend to flex better. Leaves hit stuff 1st offroad though (front most point on most 4x4's) which can be good and bad. Better to scrape a rock with a leaf pack than a shiny new bull bar

MQ sounds perfect for what you want, mainly cause their cheap and you could find one with a few mods for around 3k.

Why are you scared of SWB? They have better ramp over, and can maneuver around stuff better too. The tippy factor aint that bad and the feeling your about to roll over is kinda fun

I'd throw in a Rocky for consideration but, you don't seem to want a diesel and I wouldn't recommend a petty model. Their bigger than a sierra, and smaller than a MQ/GQ

What do you call cheap?
I'm cheap. I have a GQ wagon.

I used to have leaf spring cruisers, but much prefer coils now and not for the comfort either.

While saying it's better to slide th leaf pack over an obstacle rather than scratch a shiny new bar.
If u don't get the shackle over it and bend th leaf it's not so good.

Lifting either a small amount like 2" is reasonably priced and easy to do,
but it's much harder to lift leaves much more than that if u wanted to.

Like Rocky said, why aren't u considering a diesel?

Get a Jimny

yep MQ for sure, I have 3 here and id rather the swb for offroad duties for sure.

get a lsd rear and weld the front diff and it will get you into and out of trouble easlly enough without spending the $$$

ANd get a diesel one, about 1k extra than a petty .

I use a lwb now and the extra room is nice, but i miss the shorty. Perfect for dd duties and tight tracks.

i know were a lifted up range rover vouge is, its efi NO OIL LEAKS , had a bit of money spent on it n its a 4dr for 1500. its 2 hours max from you

tna racing wrote:i know were a lifted up range rover vouge is, its efi NO OIL LEAKS , had a bit of money spent on it n its a 4dr for 1500. its 2 hours max from you

Where, what year? Phone number?

i found that im a lot more comfortable in the shorty with the roof off for obvious reasons..

why not a 40/45/47.. you can get these rather cheap these days.?

RockyF70 wrote:It seems your not considering diesel? Why?

Coil VS Leaf. Well, leaf is fine. Nothing wrong with them in fact they have a few advantages. But main advantage of coils is comfort, and they tend to flex better. Leaves hit stuff 1st offroad though (front most point on most 4x4's) which can be good and bad. Better to scrape a rock with a leaf pack than a shiny new bull bar

MQ sounds perfect for what you want, mainly cause their cheap and you could find one with a few mods for around 3k.

Why are you scared of SWB? They have better ramp over, and can maneuver around stuff better too. The tippy factor aint that bad and the feeling your about to roll over is kinda fun

I'd throw in a Rocky for consideration but, you don't seem to want a diesel and I wouldn't recommend a petty model. Their bigger than a sierra, and smaller than a MQ/GQ

Diesel because of running costs. Sure they get better milage, but when you're paying 1.50 a litre the benefit disappears.
Say I get 30l/100k on gas and it cost me 50c a litre. Say a 90l tank, it would cost me $45 for that 300k.

Diesel, say 15l/100k at 1.50. 90l tank, 600k which equals $60 for 300k.
That's a full tank difference after three tanks. Also I'm not sure an old diesel would get 15/100 offroading.


I prefer staying upright, stability is a greatly appreciated asset in my mind.

How much flex is really needed for the average victorian style driving? Mud, ruts and bogholes is what I'll be playing in and I think I'll very rarely see big rocks and QLD style moguls. But, in my mind I'd rather prepare for a later stage (if it's likely) of offroading by buying a vehicle that is capable of being modified (within reason) to go 'anywhere' if I get that enthusiastic in the future.

backspace wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:It seems your not considering diesel? Why?

Coil VS Leaf. Well, leaf is fine. Nothing wrong with them in fact they have a few advantages. But main advantage of coils is comfort, and they tend to flex better. Leaves hit stuff 1st offroad though (front most point on most 4x4's) which can be good and bad. Better to scrape a rock with a leaf pack than a shiny new bull bar

MQ sounds perfect for what you want, mainly cause their cheap and you could find one with a few mods for around 3k.

Why are you scared of SWB? They have better ramp over, and can maneuver around stuff better too. The tippy factor aint that bad and the feeling your about to roll over is kinda fun

I'd throw in a Rocky for consideration but, you don't seem to want a diesel and I wouldn't recommend a petty model. Their bigger than a sierra, and smaller than a MQ/GQ

Diesel because of running costs. Sure they get better milage, but when you're paying 1.50 a litre the benfit disappears.
Say I get 30l/100k on gas and it cost me 50c a litre. Say a 90l tank, it would cost me $45 for that 300k.

Diesel, say 15l/100k at 1.50. 90l tank, 600k which equals $60 for 300k.
That's a full tank difference after three tanks. Also I'm not sure an old diesel would get 15/100 offroading.


I prefer staying upright, stability is a greatly appreciated asset in my mind.

How much flex is really needed for the average victorian style driving? Mud, ruts and bogholes is what I'll be playing in and I think I'll very rarely see big rocks and QLD style moguls. But, in my mind I'd rather prepare for a later stage (if it's likely) of offroading by buying a vehicle that is capable of being modified (within reason) to go 'anywhere' if I get that enthusiastic in the future.

My old T/D rocky (85 model) used to get about 12l100km offroad, and about 10l//100km onroad. That was running larger tyres and loaded with camping gear. Got a bit thirsty playing in the dunes, but petrol is the same. As for maintenance, if you are prepared to get stuck in yourself and do it, there isnt that much difference in the $$.

Layto....

Rogue Patrol wrote:What do you call cheap?
I'm cheap. I have a GQ wagon.

I used to have leaf spring cruisers, but much prefer coils now and not for the comfort either.

While saying it's better to slide th leaf pack over an obstacle rather than scratch a shiny new bar.
If u don't get the shackle over it and bend th leaf it's not so good.

Lifting either a small amount like 2" is reasonably priced and easy to do,
but it's much harder to lift leaves much more than that if u wanted to.

Like Rocky said, why aren't u considering a diesel?

Cheap, 4k would be the limit. Of which I dont have at the moment.
on the diesel, see my previous post.

tna racing wrote:i know were a lifted up range rover vouge is, its efi NO OIL LEAKS , had a bit of money spent on it n its a 4dr for 1500. its 2 hours max from you

What kind of Range Rover is that?

Is it on gas? PM with details if possible, please.

cloughy wrote:

tna racing wrote:i know were a lifted up range rover vouge is, its efi NO OIL LEAKS , had a bit of money spent on it n its a 4dr for 1500. its 2 hours max from you

Where, what year? Phone number?

Atleast let the poor newbie have the first look.

shorty_f0rty wrote:i found that im a lot more comfortable in the shorty with the roof off for obvious reasons..

why not a 40/45/47.. you can get these rather cheap these days.?

Do they have power steering? Also, I prefer having a roof over my head.

backspace wrote:

cloughy wrote:

tna racing wrote:i know were a lifted up range rover vouge is, its efi NO OIL LEAKS , had a bit of money spent on it n its a 4dr for 1500. its 2 hours max from you

Where, what year? Phone number?

Atleast let the poor newbie have the first look.



.

Better of that way, then you can buy parts of me, when you break.........ah, um, cough, nothing

Geez ur fuel prices are different to ours.....

Gas is hoverin round th 70c mark and
Diesel here is $1.36, give or take, cost me $105 to fill from almost dry on saturday and I'll get close to 600 from it.
When I'm wheelin it uses bugger all fuel as i don't use that much throttle.
Mud, obviously would be a different matter.
Not sure how much mileage u'll get offroad with a petty on gas but I'm
pretty sure th it won't be too good.

But some power WOULD be nice....

backspace wrote: Diesel because of running costs. Sure they get better milage, but when you're paying 1.50 a litre the benefit disappears.
Say I get 30l/100k on gas and it cost me 50c a litre. Say a 90l tank, it would cost me $45 for that 300k.

Most shorty's should get 10L/100 or very close to it. EVEN IF gas stays at 50cpl,(its closer to 70cpl here) your paying the same amount as you would for diesel. Diesel wont only last longer but it gives you great engine braking, sounds mad, easier to work on, and wont get cranky when in water provided you keep it out of the air intake.

As far as it being hard to lift leaves, whoever said that, its not Just buy em and bolt the new longer ones under. Don't have to worry about link setups n stuff.

RockyF70 wrote: As far as it being hard to lift leaves, whoever said that, its not Just buy em and bolt the new longer ones under. Don't have to worry about link setups n stuff.

It wasn't a general statement that it was hard to lift them but it is harder to go th big lifts if u wanted to go that far......

my SWB MQ cost 2100, to fill up the 80l tank costs 95, i get 850k off a tank, 750 if im offroad,
it has no power stearing, but unless your trying to turn without moving then you dont notice it, and if you do notice it then u need to harder up!
it is not the most comfortable thing in the world to drive, but then i dont care, its not made for comfort.
it will go everywhere i point it, its bloody hard to break, it pulls hard, it takes 33s without a lift, its cheap and old so panel damage is not an issue.
it might be a shorty, but its still a physicaly big truck, just it turns better
the ONLY thing i can say against it is it really needs a 5th gear for the highway to and from work each day, but if you get an MK then it will have that anyway. and you can find them with power steering if you really are feeling soft....

diesel is heaps better for offroad cause of the lower torque, and i really am dissapointed that you seem so against it.
my diesel 3.3l uses less than my mates 2.8 4runner, 2.8 hilux, 3.0 pajero, and a V6 petrol 4runner. and not only does it use less, i actualy spend less on fuel each month and i drive further than them.


really, dont count out the diesels, they are cheaper than u may think

backspace wrote:Diesel because of running costs. Sure they get better milage, but when you're paying 1.50 a litre the benefit disappears.
Say I get 30l/100k on gas and it cost me 50c a litre. Say a 90l tank, it would cost me $45 for that 300k.

Diesel, say 15l/100k at 1.50. 90l tank, 600k which equals $60 for 300k.
That's a full tank difference after three tanks. Also I'm not sure an old diesel would get 15/100 offroading.

It'll purely depend on how you drive it overall as to what you get out of a tank.

I went from mid gold coast to rainbow beach and drove around doing the sand and the tracks around there for tthe day and drove back all on 1 tank of diesel, which is 70litres plus I had about a 1/4 left over for going to/back from work.

I worked out that a tank of diesel will get me around 900klm, it's a bit less now only because the intector pump is leaking.

Back then it was around the $1.20 QLD a litre, right now it's $1.35litre QLD with gas you'll have a % drop in power just for using gas in a petrol engine.

The only petrol 4wd that would compare klm wise to me is the hyundai sonta they use bugger all fuel I was quite supprised as a guy when from bris to vic on 1 and half tanks of petrol, it's a 70litre as well it gets a bit more out of a tank around 950 to 1000klms, this is along highways.

Looking at the 4wd Aust video of the H3 in action would seem to me that a diesel would be the best out there, as it was refilled a few times while on the trip.

Also your've only taken into account the cost of fuel you'll also want to look into the costs of servicing.

The other good thing that I can think of about diesel is that you really can go anywhere and get diesel, where as with petrol once your out in the middle of now where your pretty much screwed for getting it and it won't be $1.20 per litre if you can get it and Gas just won't exist so that's something else to think about.

Rogue Patrol wrote:Geez ur fuel prices are different to ours.....

Gas is hoverin round th 70c mark and
Diesel here is $1.36, give or take, cost me $105 to fill from almost dry on saturday and I'll get close to 600 from it.
When I'm wheelin it uses bugger all fuel as i don't use that much throttle.
Mud, obviously would be a different matter.
Not sure how much mileage u'll get offroad with a petty on gas but I'm
pretty sure th it won't be too good.

But some power WOULD be nice....

After checking the RACV site it seems that diesel average is around 1.40 a litre at the moment, and LPG 56, and that does make a difference if they stay around the same margin.

RockyF70 wrote:

backspace wrote: Diesel because of running costs. Sure they get better milage, but when you're paying 1.50 a litre the benefit disappears.
Say I get 30l/100k on gas and it cost me 50c a litre. Say a 90l tank, it would cost me $45 for that 300k.

Most shorty's should get 10L/100 or very close to it. EVEN IF gas stays at 50cpl,(its closer to 70cpl here) your paying the same amount as you would for diesel. Diesel wont only last longer but it gives you great engine braking, sounds mad, easier to work on, and wont get cranky when in water provided you keep it out of the air intake.

As far as it being hard to lift leaves, whoever said that, its not Just buy em and bolt the new longer ones under. Don't have to worry about link setups n stuff.

I'd be over the moon with 10 per 100k. I'm going to ring up about a GQ diesel I found that's cheap, I'm expecting something to be wrong with it though for the price.

zagan wrote:
Also your've only taken into account the cost of fuel you'll also want to look into the costs of servicing.

That's a good point. What would the cost difference be between petrol/lpg and diesels?

macca81 wrote:my SWB MQ cost 2100, to fill up the 80l tank costs 95, i get 850k off a tank, 750 if im offroad,
it has no power stearing, but unless your trying to turn without moving then you dont notice it, and if you do notice it then u need to harder up!
it is not the most comfortable thing in the world to drive, but then i dont care, its not made for comfort.
it will go everywhere i point it, its bloody hard to break, it pulls hard, it takes 33s without a lift, its cheap and old so panel damage is not an issue.
it might be a shorty, but its still a physicaly big truck, just it turns better
the ONLY thing i can say against it is it really needs a 5th gear for the highway to and from work each day, but if you get an MK then it will have that anyway. and you can find them with power steering if you really are feeling soft....

After learning to drive in a triton dual cab with no power steering, I'll steer well clear of anything that maybe slow moving and needs the wheels turned hard.

mate slow driving aint hard to turn at all, you really really dont notice it unless you are dead still... still, if your that fussy get a MQ with power steering....

backspace wrote:

macca81 wrote:my SWB MQ cost 2100, to fill up the 80l tank costs 95, i get 850k off a tank, 750 if im offroad,
it has no power stearing, but unless your trying to turn without moving then you dont notice it, and if you do notice it then u need to harder up!
it is not the most comfortable thing in the world to drive, but then i dont care, its not made for comfort.
it will go everywhere i point it, its bloody hard to break, it pulls hard, it takes 33s without a lift, its cheap and old so panel damage is not an issue.
it might be a shorty, but its still a physicaly big truck, just it turns better
the ONLY thing i can say against it is it really needs a 5th gear for the highway to and from work each day, but if you get an MK then it will have that anyway. and you can find them with power steering if you really are feeling soft....

After learning to drive in a triton dual cab with no power steering, I'll steer well clear of anything that maybe slow moving and needs the wheels turned hard.

shot u a pm