Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey fellas, just been thinking bout this, is it do-able, or done regulary?

Really wouldnt have a clue, just asking

You can fit coil-overs instead of torsion bars, but the cost Vs advanages would probabyl suck. Would depend on what you want to do with the rig. Anything is possible, just depends on how much $$ and time you want to invest.

Layto....

I think you will be spending big money for little gain.

Yes coils on an Ifs is better but not that much better.

Unless your planning on competing in a highspeed offroad race.

There are kits from the US to do this but they usually add to the track about 3" per side. I'm trying to nut out how to do it without the track width, possibly using Prado front end.

Not a very common coversion so hard to find info on.

The coil IFS rides and works a lot better offroad.

catcha
Leeham

yeah i just started thinkin bout it after looking at trophy trucks and some of the rigs over in the states..

had a quick look on google but didnt really find anything i understood hah

The IFS front ends on trophy trucks, or pretty much any high speed rig, are a far cry from the typcial factory IFS. There are some nice kits over in teh states though which increase the strength and travel of a factory IFS, but as said previously you will gain at least 3 inches each side in width. What rig are you considering this for?


Edit
- Example of Kits stateside - http://www.chaosfab.com/


Layto....

I fail to see any advantage of changing to coil on a torsion bar design. The main limitation in the set up is not the torsion bar but the wishbone set up, I dont think it would be worth the cost and effort unless you were fundamentally changing the front end design and using it on a race truck

i just thought it might mean a more supported/comfy ride, and have a bit more flex then wat it currently has, i know its mainly used for desert racing which id love to do, but living in sydney, its a bit of a trek out to anywhere decent haha..

cheers for that link anyways dude! definitely interesting..

I've thought of this myself, that US website has some of the ideas I had come up with for something like this.

I think the major problem isn't doing it but being able to do it yourself or finding someone who will do it the way you want or work it out to get what your after.

The extra width is only done to allow for the width of the shock and coil, so if you could work out a good upper mounting point that's strong enough then you might be able to work out something to allow it to happen.

Basicly all it really is, is make up two stronger A-arms, then fit the bottom of a shock to the lower A-arm then make up a mounting point for the top of the shock.

The top A-arm won't be taking heaps of presure but the bottom will for sure as well as the upper mounting point.

Look at the ones in those kits, bit of bent pipe with a bit of pipe at the ends large enough for a bolt and a bushing to fit in then bolted up to the orginal bolting points anyway, then some kits use 2 types of upper shock mounts
1)a shock hoop for the upper shock mount.
2) a bolt in shock mount welded to the chasis.

pretty simple stuff really at the end of the day.

I've got to get me a welder for the home, lol.

yeah and it was for a navara aswell, so the frontier on that site is ace

been lookin into this more lately, just really getting over the current factory suspension on the navara. And after looking around at prices for torsion lifts and stuff, it seems almost pointless just going down that road, specially when shops just keep telling me i can wind up the bars and just start braking stuff left right and centre..

Waiting to hear back on prices from chaos fab, watching the vids on their site and other various pre - runner sites have got me hooked lol

i thought the extra with was so you could get more travel without binding the cv's

yeah thats what they seem to be saying on their site..

one of the needed parts to the navara/frontier system is extended front axles which they also sell

another great factor is u can get between 3-4" of lift, which would set me back almost $2600 already for a calmini system

ADEM wrote:yeah and it was for a navara aswell, so the frontier on that site is ace

Why not take the coil struts from a later pathfinder/terrano as a starting point?

One minor engineering point would be to make sure the chassis ahead of the engine mounts is up to the task of taking the added suspension loads of the spring/strut.

As it stands with most of the torsion bar setups, most of the load is taken through the center of the chassis (under your bum) which is usually a fair bit stronger.

You may need a bit of gusseting and an extra or strengthened crossmember in the front.

Zagan, I think you're massively understating how complex this is. Understanding all the geometry associated with an IFS front end is not "pretty simple stuff" and the consequences of a failure could be catastrophic.

"All it really is" is two lower A arms, two upper A arms, bushes, balljoints, 2 axles, maybe CV's depending on operating angles, two steering rods, 2X shockmounts, brake lines, coils/coilovers, etc etc etc

Had it occurred that the stock bushes may be WAY too soft now due to the added leverage? how about bump steer with the added width/travel? all the added load on the chassis (as pointed out by Damkia?)

We have a club member who extended the track width of their torsion bar car and it rides and travels very very well. It was a huge job though with lots of custom work. There's nothing wrong with torsion bars at all once the width and operating angles are right.

and correct, the extra width has NOTHING to do with the coil mounting, and everything to do with added travel, stability and reduced CV angles.

Steve.

finally received an email from chaos fab, goddamn its sure not cheap! But nothing good ever is lol

Thank you for your inquiry with TOTAL CHAOS Fabrication Inc. The Nissan 4wd Frontier & X Terra long travel kit with 300M custom extended axles is $3112. TC offers a pre bent weld on upper shock hoop that is designed to install 8" travel 2.5 coil over shocks by Fox (pt# 980-99-246-A), King or Sway A Way will run $218. This kit increases the vehicles track width by 3” per side. Some torching, grinding and welding is required to perform the suspension system installation. Shock prices will vary by brand $1200-$1300pr with coil springs. Fiberglass fenders are required. The vehicles overall track width will increase by 6". We suggest installing a 16" or 18" 550 or 600lb coil spring depending on what brand shock you install and your application. Heim steering is optional and can be added to the kit for $492. TC offers the Nissan King Kong steering system as an additional upgrade, featuring a custom chromoly centerlink, custom idler arm and gusseted pitman arm. Heim steering is required to install this steering system. A $65 pitman arm core charge is applied and is refunded within 30 days of the original purchase upon return receipt of an undamaged unit.

Something to think about nonetheless

And with heim steering, you can write off an engineer cert for road use.

Steve.

i dun even know wat heim steering is lol..

ADEM wrote:i dun even know wat heim steering is lol..

Replacing your tie rod ends with Heim joints, usually in single shear.

Layto....

Heim joints are also known as Rod ends or Rose joints.

They are effectively impossible to be certified as road legal.

Steve.