Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Thought I may contribute something instead of asking questions.
Found this setup interesting

http://home.iprimus.com.au/promotive/_P ... Patrol.htm

grepin wrote:Thought I may contribute something instead of asking questions.
Found this setup interesting

http://home.iprimus.com.au/promotive/_P ... Patrol.htm

Its owned by one of the Members here. Not sure which one now as it has changed hands a couple of times.

RUFF wrote:

grepin wrote:Thought I may contribute something instead of asking questions.
Found this setup interesting

http://home.iprimus.com.au/promotive/_P ... Patrol.htm

Its owned by one of the Members here. Not sure which one now as it has changed hands a couple of times.

Maybe I will contribute nothing that hasnt been seen then.
I will come up with something better then.

I've got the same motr but with a single turbo and has been dynoed at 280rwkw. Which is about 530hp. Once I fit bigger injectors then we can raise redline and start using the variable valve timing. Current not switching the cams and only using 6000rpm. Factory redline is 6900 and the engine is safe to 7500.

RUFF wrote:

grepin wrote:Thought I may contribute something instead of asking questions.
Found this setup interesting

http://home.iprimus.com.au/promotive/_P ... Patrol.htm

Its owned by one of the Members here. Not sure which one now as it has changed hands a couple of times.

Hazard aint it?

nzdarin wrote:I've got the same motr but with a single turbo and has been dynoed at 280rwkw. Which is about 530hp. Once I fit bigger injectors then we can raise redline and start using the variable valve timing. Current not switching the cams and only using 6000rpm. Factory redline is 6900 and the engine is safe to 7500.

Your 280 rwkw isn't 530 rwhp..... even at the flywheel I think your being generous.... 280 kw is abt 380 rwhp...

RUFF wrote:

grepin wrote:Thought I may contribute something instead of asking questions.
Found this setup interesting

http://home.iprimus.com.au/promotive/_P ... Patrol.htm

Its owned by one of the Members here. Not sure which one now as it has changed hands a couple of times.

i think whosyourdaddy owns it

he also has a red GQ shorty unless he sold it

RED60 wrote:

nzdarin wrote:I've got the same motr but with a single turbo and has been dynoed at 280rwkw. Which is about 530hp. Once I fit bigger injectors then we can raise redline and start using the variable valve timing. Current not switching the cams and only using 6000rpm. Factory redline is 6900 and the engine is safe to 7500.

Your 280 rwkw isn't 530 rwhp..... even at the flywheel I think your being generous.... 280 kw is abt 380 rwhp...

280 kW equals 375 horsepower as a straight conversion, usual driveline losses are about 30% or so so the flywheel horsepower whould be about about 535 horsepower or about 400 kW

No where have I said 280kw equals 530 hp.
If you read my post you will see I talk in rwkw and hp not rwhp.

280kw = 375hp, so allow for driveline and tyre losses puts it at between 530 and 550 hp at the fly wheel. Also the 370cc injectors are at 87% duty cycle which equates to around 530 to 540 hp.

The tuner recons that it is closer to 550hp based on his 10 years using the same dyno. I think that is it closer to 530hp but the one things that is proven is 375 at the wheels with 33" mt's on. The power reading was on a Dyno Dynamic machine. 33" tyres at 40psi, Auto transmission and in 2nd gear.

u got pics mate? reading the description of ur truck is almost giving me half horn haha..

get some pics up!

excuss the stupid question. But What car is the vh45 out of ????

Wish I had coils wrote:excuss the stupid question. But What car is the vh45 out of ????

Nissan Infinity. Luxo barge.

I went to the Dyno Dynamics dyno day at Beerwah on saturday. There was about 100 cars lined up.
This GQ has a Toyota Lexus V8 but no turbo's. 197hp.

want33s wrote:

Wish I had coils wrote:excuss the stupid question. But What car is the vh45 out of ????

Nissan Infinity. Luxo barge.

being an import I guess!!!!!!

Here is my new setup

Sorry crap build photo, it is a 5.7 ls1 TO4ZR single turbo front mounted, the intercooler is missing from the picture.
I'm not a big believer in the 30% drive train loss theory as it varies a lot due to tyres, diffs, transmissions, transfere case etc, cars are closer to 20% but most people don't want to hear that.
I'm running 8.9psi and and figure about 550-600 engine HP, could up the boost as I fuel for 800 HP but the auto is only good for 650 in its current state.


Havent driven it yet, hang on.



Joel

oh fuck yeah that is soooo cool.

Hey Joel how do you reckon a T04Z would go on a 4.8 nissan? I am unsure what exhaust housing it has on it though.

Got a mate with one sitting around might be cool to bolt up!

PGS 4WD wrote:Here is my new setup

Sorry crap build photo, it is a 5.7 ls1 TO4ZR single turbo front mounted, the intercooler is missing from the picture.
I'm not a big believer in the 30% drive train loss theory as it varies a lot due to tyres, diffs, transmissions, transfere case etc, cars are closer to 20% but most people don't want to hear that.
I'm running 8.9psi and and figure about 550-600 engine HP, could up the boost as I fuel for 800 HP but the auto is only good for 650 in its current state.


Havent driven it yet, hang on.



Joel

I agree with you here Joel, peolpe always claim 30% power loss from the fly wheel thru the drive line, but with engines i have seen dyno'ed this isnt the case. And arnt you ment to dyno in the direct drive gear so ratios are at 1:1? any how my turboed GQ ran 155rwkw in forth with 33" and 4:11 ratios(drive line power loss was only 10-15kw)

Daniels

PS love the bar mate.

Whay housing are you running the T04Z with? I'm using a 1.15 and that is boosting at 2000rpm and has 10psi from 3000rpm? Ay the current redline (6000) the power is still going skywards but due t injector size we have stopped it there.I would imagine you have a bigger housing due to bigger motor and similar boost?
I also assume you have the Nissan auto with an Extreme valve body since you talk about 650 as a limit. If so the exact same setup as me as well.

just did some basic calcs

370cc injector = 36.27 lb/hr
HP (per inj) = LB/hr *2.04
36.27*2.04=74hp
8 inj @ 74hp = 592hp max @ 100% duty cycle

So since they are currently at 87% that would be about 515hp. How much effect does fuel pressure have on fuel flow? Obviously something but I don't know how much.
I understand fuel equals power but wouldn't the air fuel ratio also have an effect. ie if you are running rich then you would have less power? One of the reasons I'm running on avgas is consistant fuel quality, the other is 10.2:1 and 10psi, so the motor is tuned pretty accurately. Basically they pulled a bit of timing to keep things safe but it is running on the lean side not the rich.
I've had another guy do the same calculation and he reconed 535 at 85%. So I assume their are other assumptions that are made to get a general figure!

So not saying 74hp per injector is wrong, I'm just trying to understand better how and why that figure is reached.

Horsepower figures from a chassis dyno are never 100% accurate.
This is a 4x4 forum after all so who cares about horsepower.
TORQUE is where its at!

want33s wrote:Horsepower figures from a chassis dyno are never 100% accurate.
This is a 4x4 forum after all so who cares about horsepower.
TORQUE is where its at!

torque has nothing in a pissing competition..

DanielS wrote:

PGS 4WD wrote:Here is my new setup

Sorry crap build photo, it is a 5.7 ls1 TO4ZR single turbo front mounted, the intercooler is missing from the picture.
I'm not a big believer in the 30% drive train loss theory as it varies a lot due to tyres, diffs, transmissions, transfere case etc, cars are closer to 20% but most people don't want to hear that.
I'm running 8.9psi and and figure about 550-600 engine HP, could up the boost as I fuel for 800 HP but the auto is only good for 650 in its current state.


Havent driven it yet, hang on.



Joel

I agree with you here Joel, peolpe always claim 30% power loss from the fly wheel thru the drive line, but with engines i have seen dyno'ed this isnt the case. And arnt you ment to dyno in the direct drive gear so ratios are at 1:1? any how my turboed GQ ran 155rwkw in forth with 33" and 4:11 ratios(drive line power loss was only 10-15kw)

Daniels

PS love the bar mate.

Interestingly enough my tyres started to delaminate at 220 kph in 1:1 and I could not get consistant readings. The choice of gear in theory doesn't effect the power as the loss in torque equals the gain in speed that results in the same power....however at higher speed the tyres are displacing more air and getting hotter so readings should be lower at high speeds, this is emphasised with more aggressive tyres. The same goes for the torque v Hp argument, if you have two engines running at 2000 rpm and one makes 50 Hp and one 60 Hp then the one making 60 Hp has more torque as Hp is derived from torque x rpm. I do electronically lock the torque converter so as to represent the torque curve of the engine, with the converter unlocked torque multiplication would show a lot more torque at low speed.

I have 660 cc injectors running 43 psi fuel pressure static with a 1:1 rising rate regulator but haven't yet checked the duty cycle, I agree this is a truer indicator of power than most dynos, dyno dynamics are the most generous of dynos which is why I dont use one.

Cheers

Joel

nzdarin wrote:Whay housing are you running the T04Z with? I'm using a 1.15 and that is boosting at 2000rpm and has 10psi from 3000rpm? Ay the current redline (6000) the power is still going skywards but due t injector size we have stopped it there.I would imagine you have a bigger housing due to bigger motor and similar boost?
I also assume you have the Nissan auto with an Extreme valve body since you talk about 650 as a limit. If so the exact same setup as me as well.

Nah I'm running a 4l80e and 4 speed electronic version of a T400, or a larger 4l60e than what our commodores use, they come from big block SUV's in the states. I've got a 1.05 housing and I get boost from 1100 rpm just 2 psi but it gets the full 8.5 psi by 2400, I have quite a small camshaft as my plan was to maximize the engine for torque at low rpm and have the turbo maintain the top end, power peaks at 6000 rpm with a 212 @ .050 camshaft, soem head work HPC chambers and exhaust ports. The std LS1 crank is only good for 650 Hp, I have had it cryoed but don't need to push the boundaries, the power run was from 1200 rpm, I dont bother with connecting the tacho as I data log on my laptop.
The auto is fully programable with multiple shift patterns as it is controlled by the LS1 PCM, so I plan to put in a short shift option to be able to drive it in different situations.

Check this site for injector calculation vs pressure..is quite good
http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

Joel

want33s wrote:Horsepower figures from a chassis dyno are never 100% accurate.
This is a 4x4 forum after all so who cares about horsepower.
TORQUE is where its at!

When you are talking about race vehicles then you are interested in both. I turboed my motor to get more torque lower down the rev range and also get more power higher up the rev range. If
This thread has being pretty interesting as it is always good to be able to see how accurate your assumptions are. A dyno is only a guide and a tuning tool, but it is a pretty good one. As has been said there is a big variation between them and to get a true comparison you need to put the vehicles on the same dyno with the same conditions etc.

I've found that the short time before the turbo starts spinning is actually very good. It allows you to be moving before the power really starts to build. But I still have enough power to spin all 4 if needs, instantly. It is a very different way of driving and I've still got a lot to learn and there is still a lot more power to be had once I can control what is already there.

theres one on here 505 hp at tires RB26 powered just got to
find some pics its in members some where

DanielS wrote:

PGS 4WD wrote:Here is my new setup

Sorry crap build photo, it is a 5.7 ls1 TO4ZR single turbo front mounted, the intercooler is missing from the picture.
I'm not a big believer in the 30% drive train loss theory as it varies a lot due to tyres, diffs, transmissions, transfere case etc, cars are closer to 20% but most people don't want to hear that.
I'm running 8.9psi and and figure about 550-600 engine HP, could up the boost as I fuel for 800 HP but the auto is only good for 650 in its current state.


Havent driven it yet, hang on.



Joel

I agree with you here Joel, peolpe always claim 30% power loss from the fly wheel thru the drive line, but with engines i have seen dyno'ed this isnt the case. And arnt you ment to dyno in the direct drive gear so ratios are at 1:1? any how my turboed GQ ran 155rwkw in forth with 33" and 4:11 ratios(drive line power loss was only 10-15kw)

Daniels

PS love the bar mate.

I have had a bit to do with engine dynos, not actually operating them but being present when testing different parts. The guy running the dyno allowed for driveline losses of abt 17%, which does seem agree with your observations.....

Joel
Just looking at the photo of your truck and trying to figure something out. I assume from the way you have modified the radiator support panel that you are running a front winch that will sit right into the bottom of where the radiator would normally sit. If so where is the radiator going to be?
I'm interested as I'm looking at fitting a second winch to the front and I was thinking of cutting the panel a bit to maintain approach angle and keep the weight over the front wheels.
Also have you moved the motor foward or the body back?

You have a good eye, the radiator is rear mounted. The body mounts have been cut off and moved rearwards 50mm and up 40mm, this was to improve the approach angle and free up space. The engine was moved rearwards as much as possible, the standard truck sump slips behind the tie rod. I have a full girdle underneath that is x braced and locates the transmission and transfere above the chassis rails, the trans x member is now flush with the rails so it shouldn't get hung up.

Cheers
Joel

I've shifted body mounts back 75mm and then cut the front of the chassis off. Cylinders 3&4 sit directly bove the axle. I've shifted the body back as much as you can without either shifting the steer box or doing some major body cuting to fit it over it. I lifted the body off, fitted the engine with new mounts but the factory position for the trasfer case, then just put the body back on to suit.
There is enough room between the engine and radiator, (even with twin electric fans (EL Falcon) mounted on a shroud) that the wastegate (50mm) fits in there with room to spare. It is about where you have mounted the turbo. My turbo is behind LH headlight due to position of throttle body and intercooler.
I like the way you have braced the bar to the top of the chassis and that is an idea I had but couldn't figure out how to do it without cutting the bottom of the rad panel out. (like you have done)