Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Ok decided the one piece tail shaft is my only option.

1. Can I get one from a pre 83 lux to use on my 84 or will it not fit the diff flanges?

2. Are there different things to get, or do I go to any old Tailshaft place and say I want single piece tailshaft for my lux.

3. Should I look at longer travel slip joint at same time?

4. Where should I go in Melbourne for it. (good price etc)

Thanks.

tonka.

ToNkA wrote:Ok decided the one piece tail shaft is my only option.

1. Can I get one from a pre 83 lux to use on my 84 or will it not fit the diff flanges?

2. Are there different things to get, or do I go to any old Tailshaft place and say I want single piece tailshaft for my lux.

3. Should I look at longer travel slip joint at same time?

4. Where should I go in Melbourne for it. (good price etc)

Thanks.

tonka.

1. No the flanges wont fit, the holes are also 8mm as opposed to the 10mm on your current shaft.

2. You will have to have a slip join that is in top condition, or else you will need to buy a brand spanker. if you don't you will get some evil vibes over that distance.

3. Long slip is not needed. you will have to either measure it (total length of shaft needed) yourself with a ramp etc at full flex and droop, ramped and also squarely compressed. If you havent moved the diff backwards, now is a good time to do it before you order the shaft...

4. NFI. You can do it at home, and get a shaft shop to balance it for you. There is tube stock available that will fit straight over the tube you currently have in the rear, then all you need to do is weld the tube.


You may have to look at some shims for the rear spring perches and possibly lowering the crossmember to improve the angles at the unis.

1. No the flanges wont fit, the holes are also 8mm as opposed to the 10mm on your current shaft.

and don`t drill the 8mm holes to 10mm holes they don`t line up

ToNkA wrote:Ok decided the one piece tail shaft is my only option.

1. Can I get one from a pre 83 lux to use on my 84 or will it not fit the diff flanges?

These shafts will be about 4-5inches to long, due to the early 4 speed case

now, the new model dual cabs run a single piece tail shaft from factory, these might fit, but i have never meausured it and it will have the correct flange

Just for something to think about Tonka.

When had the 2 piece dhaft I only ever did 1 rear shaft. (5yrs)
Since I have had the 1 piece I have done 4 (1 yr) and 3 of them have been with the cardonal jooint in the rear which means the spline has been at the bottom which gives a bit more clearance, but still not as much as with the 2 piece gave.

get a one piece made up, mine only cost $200
with new uni's. A gen 1 Lux one piece shaft cannot be shortened enough because of the taper, believe me I tried

you may not need a double cardinal depends on what flex/travel/$$$ you want. Tonka sort out what springs you want to run first, then you can make up your shaft to suit.

Guts has a good point Tonka.

What is your reason for a one piece?

The only reason I went a 1 piece was because I keeped chewing out the centre bear. I am now thinking of going back to the 2 piece to see if is the lower shaft that is the problem or if it is just my driving that has changed.

You will only need a cardinal if the angle on the 2 flanges is completly different, mine are because my rear housing has been rotated.

Since the rear diff moves forward on droop the standard length spline is more than long enough, I have lots of rear flex and it doesn`t even come close to failing apart, my front shaft on the other hand

Sorry Dave, I meant to say what was tonks reason for wanting a one piece. I could see your reason for durability and tunability (although your experience may prove otherwise) as in the situation of a hardcore comp rig.

There are advantages to retaining a centre bearing, if there are premature failures, there may be additional problems that are overlooked. The bearing/rubber housing can be replaced independent to the cage, and when supplied this way the rubber isolating bush is top quality. Also, it will prevent damage to the rubber if the steel bearing stoneguard is trimmed to prevent it cutting into the rubber on flex. The rubber bush will deflect with torque - try this experiment:

Hold your arm out straight, put your thumb up, then rotate your arm till your thumb points to the ground. Your elbow rotates on the same axis (within reason to your anatomy ) to your shoulder and wrist.
Now hold your arm out, bend it at the elbow, rotate again, your elbow now travels in an arc. This is similar to what happens with your driveshaft as it pivots at the centre uni joint under torque - and is more pronounced when the rig is lifted - and the rubber bush is there to absorb vibes from the mismatched uni joints.

You can correct the uni at the diff pinion (shims under spring packs), and the uni at the transfer (shims between the chassis and crossmember), but the centre bearing is pretty much a constant (lowering this will make the transfer case uni angle even worse). Best thing is to match the angles of the diff pinion and the uni after the centre bearing, and try to make the uni angle of the transfer case as close to zero as possible. This is where the centre bearing comes into play, helping to remove the vibe from the uncorrected uni at the transfer case end. Also the slip shaft needs to be at the top end, ie up near the centre bearing, not down near the diff.

I prefer a two piece, for the clearance, and the spares are easier to carry, but I only have a single case so it may need to be rethought if the dual case comes along. I built a rear shaft out of a damaged shaft with a good slip shaft, out of some oversized tube that went straight over the factory tube - didn't get it balanced and there are no vibes. I measured the runout at .3 of a mil at the tube end (slip end was perfect), compensated by using a hose clamp to offest the runout weight. This was purely for a road shaft, I change shafts for an old dunger for trail use. With the dunger shaft the centre bearing absorbs a lot of the vibe, so its not transferred totally to the diff or tranny bearings.

Guts wrote:The only reason I went a 1 piece was because I keeped chewing out the centre bear. I am now thinking of going back to the 2 piece to see if is the lower shaft that is the problem or if it is just my driving that has changed.

You will only need a cardinal if the angle on the 2 flanges is completly different, mine are because my rear housing has been rotated.

Since the rear diff moves forward on droop the standard length spline is more than long enough, I have lots of rear flex and it doesn`t even come close to failing apart, my front shaft on the other hand

Guts do you have your transfer lifted, I am guessing so as you posted in your members section that you have a 4" motor lift.

what I mainly wanted to ask is how do you fit a 2 piece shaft with a lifted transfer, in relation to the centre bearing mount as I only fitted a one piece because of this reason.

Rob

I lifted my drivetrain 40mm and my centre bearing isnt too happy
I think I will be going with a double cardan one piece soon.
Paul.

Old Yella wrote:Guts do you have your transfer lifted, I am guessing so as you posted in your members section that you have a 4" motor lift.

what I mainly wanted to ask is how do you fit a 2 piece shaft with a lifted transfer, in relation to the centre bearing mount as I only fitted a one piece because of this reason.

Rob

Yes my motor and t case are lifted 40mm, and this is PART!!!!!!! of why I was chewing out the bearing extra quickly. What I think I will end up doing if I go back to a 2 piece is try and re angle the bearing so it lines up better. I haven`t looked to see if it is do able yet, will worry about that later once motor and suspesion are done. Oh and I might be going twin cases at the same time as doing the V6

Area54 wrote:Guts has a good point Tonka.

What is your reason for a one piece?

Sorry, just got back from weekend away. I keep chewing up the centre bearing and its annoying me.

I have heard that its worth buying the toyota bearing and not the cheapy aftermarket as the cheapy ones die to quickly.

Thinking I may go get the shaft all balanced again and start from scratch. Toyota centre bearing, and balanced shaft, then see how long it lasts...

Good idea?

What lift do you have Tonka?

PITA with the shafts, as you have to get the two shafts balanced together with the bearing as an assembly. $$$$$$ for such a small return...quite frustrating. Have you enquired about just the bearing and isolator without the cage?

I havent thought about just the bearing and isolator no. I have never looked in to how the assembly works.

You have the cage, then the rubber outer that the bearing cylinder thing (looks like a minature keg) run in, the shaft sits inside this.

What actually goes? the bearing or the Rubber outer?

The rubber usually fails, or gets cut by the metal bearing shroud/mini stone deflector. The bearing is usually the last to go, unless it has spent a lot of time in water/mud. Sometimes the stone deflector can spin on the shaft, gets stuck in the rubber isolator and squeals like a stuck pig. Easliy fixed, remove the 'flector, cut out a tin shim from a baked bean can or similar, drive the 'flector back on with the shim in place. I have actually fixed some up by filling the void up with silicone and letting it cure before refitting - good for spares on the trail, but I could prolly get some good life out of it.

Well mine is definately the rubber failing.

Area54 wrote: I have actually fixed some up by filling the void up with silicone and letting it cure before refitting

Thats what a mate did except he used Sikaflex, it now has a one piece shaft.......can't remember how long the Sikaflex lasted.

ToNkA wrote:Well mine is definately the rubber failing.

Yep, definately the rubber failing.

Make sure the new shaft is heavy duty, the guy mentioned above hit the new shaft on a rock & twisted it.