Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Please excuse my ignorance but what diff oil do you use with an Arb Air Locker.

Thanks in advance...

good quality LSD oil

troy

Thanks Troy, I've got some Castrol LSX 90 in the shed for my rear lsd so great I dont have to buy any now...

Arb told me Penrite 85 140 LSD for all its lockers.

PAUL

Don't use LSD oil, the friction propertys in the oil used to get the lsd plates to grip wear out the o-ring and the oil will leak up through the air line. The o-ring will last about 3 weeks. Just use standard diff oil 90 weight.

i have been using good quality lsd oil for over a year with no dramas
and my air lockers get used alot

troy

cheers

well i'll be
i Definitely don't have a high horse power 2.8 D

i also needed some so i rang the 3 arb shop in brisbane. 2 use castrol lsx 90 and 1 uses penrite limslip 85w-140. all of them are lsd oils so it has to be ok. i bought the penrite limslip for mine.

I used Penrite limslip 85w-140 and the O-ring lasted 3 weeks, after ringing ARB they told me not to use LSD oil for the above reason. Maybe they were just covering their ar$e from not installing the o-ring properly. Although there is no benifet at all in using LSD oil as an air locker doesn't use friction plates. Standard oil is cheaper so you could afford to replace it more often especially after being in mud. (Also ARB did change the o-ring under warranty)

has anyone else had this happen before with pentire brfore i put the oil in?

I wouldn't bother running lsd in my diff's and at the moment for over a yr i know it's had castrol 80w 90 and no problem and for a hilux thats the oil by the book next time i drain them i'll go to a 85w 140 just for the reason it does cop a flogging and it's what they say in the arb manual, you can run non lsd oil in a lsd but the lsd side of things won't work i learnt this at a young age anything with a wet clutch needs the correct oil.

Ive been following this topic and have discussed with some mates. The general consensus is that you can still use a heavy weight oil without the benifits of limited slip.

I know that penrite do a 85/140 lim slip and 85/140 standard. obviously there are additional properties in the limslip to aid in clutch friction but other than that the viscous qualities remain the same.

Ive run the 85/140 limslip in mine since having lockers and its been nothing but oil leaks and since ive just returned from a trip to Tassie its a great time to swap over.

Im sure it cant leak anymore than it does now. Might change the o ring while im at it.

handy lil thread especially with the spec up there.

Mouse wrote:Don't use LSD oil, the friction propertys in the oil used to get the lsd plates to grip wear out the o-ring and the oil will leak up through the air line. The o-ring will last about 3 weeks. Just use standard diff oil 90 weight.

If that is the case ARB should be censured for being cheap arses and not using a Viton O ring.

I strongly suspect it's BS, as the common friction modifiers used to prevent clutch chatter aren't corrosive or seal swelling in any way. Normal seal materials work fine with them, so why shouldn't their O ring ?

rick130 wrote:

Mouse wrote:Don't use LSD oil, the friction propertys in the oil used to get the lsd plates to grip wear out the o-ring and the oil will leak up through the air line. The o-ring will last about 3 weeks. Just use standard diff oil 90 weight.

If that is the case ARB should be censured for being cheap arses and not using a Viton O ring.

I strongly suspect it's BS, as the common friction modifiers used to prevent clutch chatter aren't corrosive or seal swelling in any way. Normal seal materials work fine with them, so why shouldn't their O ring ?

Why don't you guys actually just ask ARB???

OK, hopefully this clears up things a little:

1 - ARB does use Viton seals. (Where is your info coming from???)

2 - Limited slip oil is not 'better' than non-limited slip in any way unless you happen to own an LSD. It is quite simply regular oil with additives to keep your abrasive clutch plates from chattering and wearing excessively. NO LSD additive improves the performance of the oil as a lubricator in any way. Although LSD additives do not have any known 'seal swelling' properties, SOME of these oil additives are actually abrasive themselves, and will result in accelerated wear throughout your diff (including carrier bearings, ring and pinion teeth, pinion bearings, wheel bearings, etc.). Obviously this sort of abrasion is not going to do your Air Locker seals any good either, regardless of what the seals might be made of. Some of these additives are not abrasive, and some LSD oils are just good quality oils that the oil company has decided to specify as suitable for LSD use without additives (usually synthetic blends).

3 - LSD oils that do not employ detrimental additives are perfectly suitable for use with an Air Locker diff (or any diff), and I would hope that this includes those LSD grades that people have been recommended out there.

4 - Because you don't require LSD additives to run an Air Locker, and because there are hundreds and hundreds of gear oils on the market and SOME LSD oils are harmful, and because most LSD versions of an oil grade are more expensive than the non-LSD version (because you are paying for additives you don't need or want), then ARB has tried to simplify the oil selection process with one easy across-the-board statement: "WE DO NOT RECOMMEND THE USE OF LSD OIL".

Hope that sheds some light.

-daniel
AIR LOCKER

dbongard wrote:Why don't you guys actually just ask ARB???

Some of them did, and got the opposite advice to what your saying and were recommended LSD oil...

chunks wrote:

dbongard wrote:Why don't you guys actually just ask ARB???

Some of them did, and got the opposite advice to what your saying and were recommended LSD oil...

...well, then I guess it would have been good if the guys they talked to had asked! Advice seems to be the only resource the world is not running short on.

dbongard wrote:
Why don't you guys actually just ask ARB???

OK, hopefully this clears up things a little:

1 - ARB does use Viton seals. (Where is your info coming from???)

2 - Limited slip oil is not 'better' than non-limited slip in any way unless you happen to own an LSD. It is quite simply regular oil with additives to keep your abrasive clutch plates from chattering and wearing excessively. NO LSD additive improves the performance of the oil as a lubricator in any way. Although LSD additives do not have any known 'seal swelling' properties, SOME of these oil additives are actually abrasive themselves, <snip>
Hope that sheds some light.

-daniel
AIR LOCKER

No known LSD additive is abrasive, according to those in the lube industry I talk to (blenders/tribologists, not sales reps) so I'm not sure where you've got that from.
If they were, pinion and axle seals would be dying all over the place, let alone bearings, etc. To my knowledge most FM's are some sort of phosphorus ester compound, and while Caltex's potassium borate additive is a solid, those that know tell me there is no way you could call it abrasive

My comment re using Viton was made knowing that it is impervious to any common lubricant, regardless of base or additive. I had no idea what you use, but would have guessed Viton and you've enlightened everyone, thanks.

dbongard wrote: ...well, then I guess it would have been good if the guys they talked to had asked! Advice seems to be the only resource the world is not running short on.

Unfortunatly it is quite common to obtain Mis-Information from ARB dealers and their staff. Im not sure how they are generally educated on the ARB products but at times i have wondered if they actually have any idea at all about the products they are trying to sell.

And unfortunatly the general public has no alternative but to take their word for it. Who are they to question the expert sales people?


Dont get me wrong there are some great ARB dealers and sales people out there though.

I've run Penrite limslip 85-140 for about 6-7 years with ARB lockers, never been a problem. ARB in moorebank was who first put me on to it back then.

rick130 wrote: No known LSD additive is abrasive

The earliest LSD additive I am aware of being used, which is commonly used today especially in third party additives, are molybdenum blends (e.g., moly grease containing molybdenum disulphide powder and graphite platelets). These are both 'abrasive'. In fact graphite is one of the harder abrasives available (on a micron particle scale). These are classed as 'lubricants' - but their intended use is different. They are used for high pressure static (low speed) applications because of the laminar form that the graphite takes. They are called friction modifiers because of their effect on the coefficient of 'static' friction...not because of any positive effect they have on dynamic friction. As a an additive to a bearing lubricant they can do nothing but accelerate wear. If you want to test this theory - try adding these sort of additives to a hydraulic system. It wouldn't take long.

-daniel
AIR LOCKER