Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi all,
got a 1324cc g13a engine which is fitted with a timing cover that has g13b written on it.
i seem to be having trouble with the engine 'pinging' under load. ive checked the timing(and also had a mechanic check it) and all ok.
vacuum advance seems to be ok.
valve clearances have been checked to current cam timing.

just had a look at the cam timing on the cam pully and looks to be slightly out by one tooth(the trough of the cam wheel is lined up with the mark, but the next peak should be linned up with the mark).

the way i look at it, the long side of the belt is dictating where the tooth position is on the cam wheel, so i cant move it half a notch.

question is(knew id get to it sooner or later!) are the timing covers the same on both engines? ie. are the timing marks on the cover in the same position?
the engine has had a new head fitted by the previous owner. it runs fine in the lower revs, but starts pinging under hi gear/load & low revs. also seems to run out of puff at about 4000rpm and doesnt want to rev.
Gives approx 10l/100 economy

any ideas?

cookie monster

Nope, no ideas, but ya better get the Zook recovery vehicle back on the road if ya intend taking the Pajero out

Moph wrote:Nope, no ideas, but ya better get the Zook recovery vehicle back on the road if ya intend taking the Pajero out

eh!, dont knock the Paj, it goes along just fine thanks

now back to the zook.
just adjusted the timing back from 10 DBTDC to approx 6 DBTDC.
seems to run better, with the pinging gone and a more stable idle.
ill see how it goes tomorrow on the work run.

is there any down side to retarding the ignition ?

cookie monster

How tight is your timing belt , is the tensioner at full adjustment or middle , belt might be stretched , cam could be worn. Cover should make no difference , 13b is a swift motor , maybe he changed the head and cam at the same time , the critical thing is the back plate with the timing mark , not sure if there different , I also had the 4000 rpm problem and I put a fully ported head on , with the valve guides totally chopped away to give better airflow and the cam was reground into a blower cam , the inlet and outlet manifolds matched to head , Now it revs to 6500 without any extra fuel and pulls like a bastard and I am running 35's. It idles better and is smooth through the rev range and it hasn't been tuned on the dyno yet. I also plan to weld up my distributer , the mechanical advance and block the vacuum advance just in case it starts to detonate while sand driving , running a blower I don't need to advance timing , one last thing , he might of had the head machined , maybe to far , all these little thing add up and this might be why you appear to be 1/2 a tooth out , Cheers Paul.

timing covers are the same .
pinging is caused by a few things , but certainly retarding timing will not hurt the engine as much as pinging.
are you using a good quality high octane fuel?

and yes block and head milling cause a slight misalignment of cam timing .

also you cant use a 13b cam from a swift , only the 13a cams were the same as a sierra , as in physically impossible with the sierra dizzy (the pre 89 swift 13a)

i was told aside from the actual displacement size(g13a being 1324 and the g13ba being a 1298) the only other difference is the A has a more angled dizzy adaptor..? seems oddly strange, as im after a new motor and have told the exchange places iv contacted i have both available for swap.

as a basic example:

HM quoted g13a @ 1705 BA @ 1895
RPM quoted both at 1450 not fitted or 2300 fitted with 10thou k warranty..(OUCH)
and engines+ 13a @ 895 BA@1525 with a 12 month unlimited warranty..

So what do I go for!? a little off topic, but still relivent

depends on how mech minded u are.

i got my g16b mpfi import front cut for 1600 btw.

i would go the cheapest i think. all depends.

g13a and b engine has same t/cover. Most i tune I have to set to 8 deg btdc. make sure the mixture is ok. the chart under the bonnet is made for jap fuel which is much better qual than ours they all ping on 10deg unless running 98 oct fuel or had a cam ground.

Is the timing belt worn as well?

I know when mine started to get old, the Ig and cam timing went funny. Dont forget that as the ignition timing is taken off the cam, and if the cam is out, then....... well i found out the hard way.

Another thing i have found with mine, is to shorten the valve duration, by opening the valve clearences a fraction. It loves it when pulling the trailer etc.

Anyway good luck

scooby_74 wrote:g13a and b engine has same t/cover. Most i tune I have to set to 8 deg btdc. make sure the mixture is ok. the chart under the bonnet is made for jap fuel which is much better qual than ours they all ping on 10deg unless running 98 oct fuel or had a cam ground.

NO NO NO NO NO!!! Ok G13A, G13BA and G13B are 3 different engines! G13B is the twin cam Gti motor like in my ute. G13A and BA are heap of shit carby engines like in your cars

Um, i dont think thats right, though i think there is a topic somewhere else on this forum or maybe another, but my understanding was that a G13A is 1324 SOHC, G13B 1298SOHC, G13BA is 1324 DOHC, and G13BB is 1298DOHC

Correct???

both are correct.

most people comfuse the gti G13b and the g13ba together but both are 1298cc

While we are on this topic, I have bought a 1.6lt Fuel injectioned engine the timing belt cover on that sits off the engine and doesn't seal. I assume it has been replaced at some stage or that the block would be a carby block with an EFI head on it. Which case do others think is more likely. I plan on just filing down the plastic timing cover so that it seals. All the contours look right just where the bolts go the cover is made for the mounts on the block to be further back.

where does it not seal ?

right down the passenger side of the block

AFAIK the vitara carby and efi blocks are exactly the same the only differences are internal i.e. pistons

if it was the drivers below rcover id sy you wer missing plate. but if the bolt holes line up prob got a distorted cover, just buy a new one there not that dear. or second hand pritty common aswell, same cover baleno/ vitara.

Where the bolts go through the cover the cover is thicker, like feet that make it stand off the block.

If it is what i think it will be distorted due to excess heat either from exhaust or vehicle overheating

zooker wrote:AFAIK the vitara carby and efi blocks are exactly the same the only differences are internal i.e. pistons

Same with the G series 1.3's really. Gti is 1298 forged cank and conrods and multi point fuel injected twin cam. all the others use same block AFAIK with different internals and head setups. But GTi is G13B and G13BA is often talked about with the A removed which is annoying.

is only anooying cos u think ur gti motor is fully sic

it takes a good eye to spot the differences on different blocks , some blocks can be interchanged between vehicle to vehicle , some cant , some use mounts in places others dont , virtually any g13 block can be be fitted to a sierra because of the mounting configuration , the only exception being the rare ones with aircon , they must use a g13b or ba block.

you can fit a g13a from an early swift , but you cant fit a g13a from an sierra into a 89+ swift . all blocks from any g13 swift will bolt into a sierra and all parts are interchangeable.

joshnz1 wrote:is only anooying cos u think ur gti motor is fully sic

That's right It's fully hektik uleh

just cruizin' wrote:While we are on this topic, I have bought a 1.6lt Fuel injectioned engine the timing belt cover on that sits off the engine and doesn't seal. I assume it has been replaced at some stage or that the block would be a carby block with an EFI head on it. Which case do others think is more likely. I plan on just filing down the plastic timing cover so that it seals. All the contours look right just where the bolts go the cover is made for the mounts on the block to be further back.

I could be wrong here but when we were playing with Mock's Critta (timing belt failure, early JDM G16 MPFI) I think we found that the timing belt was wider on the EFI motor than the carby (and so was the timing belt pulley etc). If your engine is a bitsa, it's possible this difference is showing up in the cover fit.

Don't quote me on this, it was a long time ago, but might be worth investigating.

Steve.

suzimad wrote:timing covers are the same .
pinging is caused by a few things , but certainly retarding timing will not hurt the engine as much as pinging.
are you using a good quality high octane fuel?

and yes block and head milling cause a slight misalignment of cam timing .

The fuel im using is normal 91 octain unleaded.
The belt looks like new as the head was replaced not that long ago. Tightness seams fine.
With the timing at approx 6 DBTDC it runs better, but still pings slightly under load up hills. might try some 95 octain next week, see what that does?
Could i reduce the timing further ?
cookie monster

Mike_1324 wrote:Um, i dont think thats right, though i think there is a topic somewhere else on this forum or maybe another, but my understanding was that a G13A is 1324 SOHC, G13B 1298SOHC, G13BA is 1324 DOHC, and G13BB is 1298DOHC

Correct???

no,
G13A = 1324 cc /SOHC 8V carby
G13BA = 1298 cc / SOHC 8V carby
G13B = 1298 cc / DOHC 16V EFI
G13BB = 1298 cc / SOHC 16V EFI

i had good results running 95 octane in my car. 98 was no different.

the timing cover from a g13b will NOT fit on a g13a.

have you checked your vac advance lines?

Gwagensteve wrote:

just cruizin' wrote:While we are on this topic, I have bought a 1.6lt Fuel injectioned engine the timing belt cover on that sits off the engine and doesn't seal. I assume it has been replaced at some stage or that the block would be a carby block with an EFI head on it. Which case do others think is more likely. I plan on just filing down the plastic timing cover so that it seals. All the contours look right just where the bolts go the cover is made for the mounts on the block to be further back.

I could be wrong here but when we were playing with Mock's Critta (timing belt failure, early JDM G16 MPFI) I think we found that the timing belt was wider on the EFI motor than the carby (and so was the timing belt pulley etc). If your engine is a bitsa, it's possible this difference is showing up in the cover fit.

Don't quote me on this, it was a long time ago, but might be worth investigating.

Steve.

some have a 19mm belt and others have a 25mm belt