Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey guys, as the title says, what do you need to do to build up an auto for serious off road work??


theoreticaly say the truck is a gq 4.2 turbo diesel(modifyed), twin locked, strengthaned axels and cvs, running a maximum tyre size of 38"(most probably 36s) and the diff gears for the 38s

this question comes as i was reading the auto vs manual thread, and i am quite un biased with this topic, as my only 4wd was a manual, but i can see the benifits of an auto.

from reading that thread i have figured that you would require reduction gears in the transfer case, and a bigger cooler for the trans fluid, i seam to think i heard soemthign about an elctrical lock up for the tourque converter, but am not 100%

i am reserching quite a bit b4 i buy my next 4wd, so that i have all the info i could ever need, so that this time i do it once do it right, so any help would be appreciated.

cheers fellas

Alistair

you want the biggest cooler you can find/afford something like a PWR 10" X 10" , an auto temp gauge, quality fluid (something like redline race or high temp) that's about it.

The lock mod is cool, and will help compression braking, but these can be a bit of a catch with leaving them locked. there is lots of tech on this mod if you do a search.

If you don't cook it, an auto will last fine. These are all pretty easy mods, and don't require a rebuild or anything.

You'll love it.

Steve.[/url]

speak with Rodney at Wholesale Automatics in Bayswater. Dont pass go until you do.

dont tell rocky8....

Why woold you build up an auto when a manaul is like so much betta, man.

I have been doing winch comps and general off roading with a GQ auto for quite a while. I've owned the one I'm racing (with the VH turbo) for 6.5 years.
To start with I had standard TD42 auto. I then fitted a Safari kit and fitted a shift kit to the auto. I then intercoolered andraised boost etc to allow 21psi. In this format I did 2 seasons which comps with not issues.
During a regular service it was discovered that it was time for a rebuild but that wa an age thing not abuse.
After the rebuild I used Redline fluid. and did another year. I then pulled the TD42 and fitted the VH45 turbo. This motor uses the same auto as a TD42 so I had the 2 auto's pulled apart and the relevant bits used so that the VH bolts up. At the same time I bought an Extreme Manual valve body from Rodney at Wholesale Automatic (as mentioned above).
The same guys do all my auto work and at this time they were able to inspect the internals for any wear or over heating. There were no indications of any heat etc after 12 months hard work.
ie To lauch the truck I'll put left foot hard on the brake then right foot hard down. It would reach almost 2000rpm and 14psi BEFORE the wheels moved. I did this regulary and there was no heat buildup.
Also before the manual control I did almost all offroad work in high range.
I've now had the same trans behind the VH since Oct last year. It now has 280rwkw and will have more once I learn to drive it and then get it fully tuned ie increase redline to 7000 from the current 6000. It doesn't overheat etc. I have a big trans cooler that is mounted on the deck with a fan just for that and the intercooler (water to air).

So get a valve body from Rodney. Use synthetic fluid. Upgrade all frictions etc inside to the Q45 spec trans. Fit the biggest cooler you can. Get the torque converter strengthened. I think they weld the spline in differently. Same price as a rebuild ie about $250. With this basic setup I am driving like I normally do, ie It doesn't get Nanaed! When approaching a bog hole I'll line it up in first, floor it hit the rev limiter and change into sencond at full power! Not problem, so far anyway. (the joys of having a spare auto sitting at hme just in case)

That's good tech there nzdarin, although I think you'll be a bit harder on an auto than a typical recreational driver

Your tech seems to bear out what I as saying - run a cooler, synth fluid, keep an eye on temp, and it should be fine.

I have seen Rodney from Wholesales automatics come up a lot in threads associated with patrol autos. He seems like the man.

Steve.

So by the sound of it the Nissan auto is pretty bloody tough to begin with .. ( I am used to traumatics .. trimatics and Th700's that seem to explode if you look at em wrong)

How often do you change the synth fluid and do you run a temp guage in the auto .. if so where .. the pan ?

get a t700 with a TCI reverse pattern 4wd (comp braking) full manual valve body, then an ATLAS!!!!

4WD Stuff wrote:Why woold you build up an auto when a manaul is like so much betta, man.

Ha, keep those opinions in the 'auto vs manual' rumble. This thread is for tech advice!

He was having a stir - 4WD stuff is a firm believer in autos.

My Gwagen's auto is the second best offroad auto I've driven, behind the 4L80E in the Hummer H1. That auto was fabulous.

I agree though, a 700r4 with a reverse manual pattern and comp braking would be very sweet. Cores are cheap too, not the case with the 4L80E.

Steve.

I'v been looking at the combinations to run a v8 or v6 auto to the 3speed stak transfer. I own a vs v6 that runs the 4L60E and stak do the adaptor for this mod. I also have a 700 in the shed.

i'm thinking of running the 4L60E for the fact that its on the motor and setting up the electronics to suit can be done easy.

how strong are the 4L60E?
how are they configured (can they run reverse pattern)?

http://www.stak4x4.com/3speed.htm

http://www.stak4x4.com/4l60e.htm



Chad

4l60E's are pretty much an updated 700r4. I haven't looked into compatibility of all parts (like valve bodies etc) but there are literally millions of 4L60E's running around in the US now as they came in pretty much every K1500 silverado/GMC in the last 10 years- there won't be a shortage of build parts.

I can't see a problem with a 4L60. Yes, an 80 is much stronger, but they are pretty exxy (built ones run $2700 upwards in the US) and the 60 has a lower 1st gear anyway at 3.05:1.

Steve.

thanks guys,

gwagen steve first off, thanks for the reply straight off, and i did do a serch, but with all the stuff returned figured it would be much easyer to ask advice.

nzdarin, im asuming you ment it would cost 2500, not 250. which if correct sounds like a good price to me. as i was expecting 5000.

also, i may only be a week ender and not planing on any comps, but i do drive hard, i had to sell my last 4wd cause i broke to much of it and couldnt aford it( plus it was just the wrong truck for me) fist to go was the read diff, which when it seazed up it tore teeth out of the transfer case gears, and as a result from the common seal between the gearbox and transfer(60 sereis yota) i had to get the gearbox done,

then i broke all the front end,

and finaly i seized the diff again, which i lernt was actualy my fault and not mechanical error though, ( one way valve that comes standard on the diff breather,s when i replaced the diff lines, i put it back on and so it let the hot air out and sucked water in through the seals.



but now i am much wiser to the 4wd world.



other than that, back to the topic at hand, i am going to try and mount quite alot of things in diffrent possitions, like the batterys under the tray, i want the radiator in the tray too, so would it be best to run the trans cooler in the tray aswell? i was thinking it would as then there would be less lines to crush up to the front of the truck??



so basicaly to have a reliable auto truck, its get a big cooler, good fluid, and a temp gauge, and the reduction gears??

oh I wasn't giving you the "search newbie" treatment, only that I remember reading heaps of stuff on the nissan forum (I think) about the converter lock when I was converting a sierra to auto using a Jimny box, which also has a converter lock.

I wasn't implying you didn't drive hard, only that the approach during comps is a bit different - once the helmet goes on, everyones MUCH harder on the equipment.. Also, NZ comps are absolutely insanely muddy, even by vic standards, whereas we might also be driving rocky track... the steps or other stuff where 280rwkw and a 3000rpm stall might be "less than ideal"

Cooler in the tray with a fan will be fine. Lots are set up that way.

Watch that GQ stuff though if you're breaking 60 stuff... by all accounts 60's are stronger than GQ's all things being equal *opens can of worms and runs away*

Steve.

well iw as thinking about replacing most of the gq stock stuff anyways, like stronger cvs, and axels, lockers at some stage, stuff like that.

hopefully to make it a tough truck.(as i may say i wont comp it now but you never know lol)

plus if i can i want to get into the 4wd game, i want to work some where that build comp rigs, but im doubiting it will happen

I had my GQ auto fully rebuilt.
All new clutch plates and in most cases extra added.
New and upgraded pump. Increased pressure, increased cooling. Thrust washer on the torque converter changed to a sealed bearing.
All up cost $3,000.00

The reason I got all of this done was the torque converter let go, partly from the way i was using the manual lock-up.

As said above, Rodney knows his stuff. I have used others but I guess we all live and learn...

well ill deffinatly make sure, b4 i make my mind up compleatly to talk to rodney

thanks for all the advice guys,

My temp temp probe is in the bottom of the pan.

The $250 was to get the torque converter rebuilt. The whole auto job excluding valve body was just over $3,000 (including torque converter)

I haven't even wiring up the manual lock-up but will do as it will help keep temps down on longer runs.

One advantage with sythetic fluid is it last so longer. The Redline fluid I use is surposed to last for 160,000 km, between changes. They say to collect fluid, change filter and reuse! So although it is dearer up front the saving is pretty big!