Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Both of my rear drums have started to weep brake fluid.

Both are very slow, as in, no noticable drop in the brake fluid reservoir, so hopefully I have a little time to fix the problem.

Unfortunately I do not have much experience with brakes at all. From the pics, can you guys tell what the problem could be, and if so what replacement parts it would require?

Where are they leaking from not quite clear in photos . might just need a kit installed but if your not sure how to do it go to a brake place and get it done.

where are you located?
it says "Location: Brisbane"

but your name says "CairnsZook"

its an easy fix, can possibly help if ya need it

boner59
I'll have a closer look tomorrow for ya.


Danzo
I used to live in Cairns, now in Brisbane, but leaving for Tasmania on Tuesday.

I've got tools and am pretty handy, just need to know what to look for.
Was gonna wait till I get down there, but if it's an easy fix I might do it before I leave.

Take the drums off and you will see some rubber cups if it leaking they will be wet . If you remove them you will see a plunger with a cup on the end replace them . Look in the bore and if its scored you might have to replace them their not dear and sometimes its easier to do than to fix the old ones. Then you will have to bleed the brakes . Hope this helps Boner

First things first... Is the leak brake fluid or diff oil?

To check remove a brake drum and peel the rubber back on the slave cylinder. If it's wet then you have found your problem.
If it's not wet in there then you have an oil leak... You should be able to tell the difference between brake fluid and diff oil pretty easily.
If your brake pads are soaked in diff oil you might as well replace them as they will never work properly again.
Either way it should only cost about $60 max to replace a pair of wheel cylinders or $35-$40 for brake pads and another $60-$80 for wheel bearings plus fitting.
Jas.
EDIT: Boner you beat me by a second.

Won't be diff oil. Almost 100% it'll be brake fluid. As others have said, remove a drum and see if your wheel cylinders (they're the things that actuate your brakes, right about where the leak eminates from...) are leaking. If they are then get some new ones.

They're VERY easy to replace. 10mm spanner to undo brake line, then undo two bolts holding it to backing plate, pull it out, put new one in, tighten everything up, bleed brakes and away you go. Just make sure everything is reasonably clean... no need to be REALLY anal about it, but just make sure you haven't got heaps of dust or mud or other sh!t near your brakeline.

A handy hint for working with the springs on drum brakes... USE A PAIR OF SIDECUTTERS TO REMOVE AND REFIT THE SPRINGS.... Job will take you less than a quarter of the time it would otherwise.

If you need extra advice on bleeding the system, then post up and I'm sure people here will beat me to it...

Cairns Zook , if you do have brake fluid on the brake shoes they will have to be replaced as brake fluid will soak into brake pad material and stuff it , also tgo check if it is brake fluid , spray it with water , it should change to a white foam , Cheers Paul.

I would mind betting that it is actually diff oil Not brake fluid. That amount of fluid nd no drop in the reservior.

SAM

OVERKILL ENG wrote:I would mind betting that it is actually diff oil Not brake fluid. That amount of fluid nd no drop in the reservior.

SAM

I'm with you on this one, shall we set up a bet? Brake fluid doesn't leak out the back like that usually.

OVERKILL ENG wrote:I would mind betting that it is actually diff oil Not brake fluid. That amount of fluid nd no drop in the reservior.

SAM

Looking at it id still say brake fluid, due to the fact that the wettness is concentrated at the top, near the rear cylinder, I dont think a weeping diff seal would send diff oil up.
Also in regards to the reservoir, how much drop would actually be noticeable by the eye, just by glancing at it? Even a teaspoon of fluid will make quite a big mess.

Either which way, the rear drum needs to come off.

Dan

Thanks for the advice guys, it's definately brake fluid though.
I'll pull the drums off on the weekend and let you know how I go.

Btw, Dan: I put my gears in the other day - they're awesome

a jack and four bolts. take it off now and stop us all wondering

I noticed a small puddle of brake fluid on the ground this arvo when I got home.

Time to pull the drum.

This is what I found






Looks like I'll have to do bearings and seals as well.

Still looks like diff fluid!! The photo doesn't quite show it all but there is a lot of dust collected under the axle. Did you pull the rubber boot back on the wheel cylinder?

Yeah dude, pulled the boot back and brake fluid pissed out everywhere.
From the looks of it, the seals have gone and diff oil has leaked out, taking with it the grease from the bearing. The brakes are pretty much stuffed too.

And to think I just drove from Brisbane to Launceston - I was lucky to make it!

Good old Suzi. Even when it's shagged you can still get another 2000km out of it.

OK, here's my list of parts from Suzisport International online store.

Brake Shoes Rear
+ 52210-70800 Disc Front 1988 0n
A$ 39.50
A$ 39.50

Rear Wheel Bearing Kit
A$ 60.00
A$ 60.00

Wheel Cylinder Rear
+ 53401-80040 Disc Brake Front
+ 1988-95
+ Righthand
A$ 65.00

Wheel Cylinder Rear
+ 53401-80040 Disc Brake Front
+ 1988-95
+ Lefthand
A$ 65.00


Total including shipping A$ 314.50

Seem like a decent price?
Anyone bought parts through these guys before?
How fast are the parts delivered?

I got my last set of brake shoes for $26.
My wheel cylinders were $22 each from Coventry auto parts.
My wheel bearings were $25 each from CBC.
Total $120.
Makes your prices seem dear
Ring around, you'll probably do better.

Judging by your emulsified diff oil you don't have diff breathers fitted.

Here's the wheel cylinder.




Axles came out easy enough, now to get cutting.

ok
dude there are cheaper places then that one. there has to be!
ring around some places that are closer to you!
seriously,
I know of people who wont go near him (Suzisport International) anymore,
sometimes he has the parts, other times he says yep in 3 days (3 months)
do they have a coventry auto or some auto spare places around where you are now? even ask at brake places,( not the big named ones either)
shop around, they are cheaper at some places. even e-bay can be cheaper!

CairnsZook wrote:OK, here's my list of parts from Suzisport International online store.

Brake Shoes Rear
+ 52210-70800 Disc Front 1988 0n
A$ 39.50
A$ 39.50

Rear Wheel Bearing Kit
A$ 60.00
A$ 60.00

Wheel Cylinder Rear
+ 53401-80040 Disc Brake Front
+ 1988-95
+ Righthand
A$ 65.00

Wheel Cylinder Rear
+ 53401-80040 Disc Brake Front
+ 1988-95
+ Lefthand
A$ 65.00


Total including shipping A$ 314.50

Seem like a decent price?
Anyone bought parts through these guys before?
How fast are the parts delivered?

Here's a quote from Repco in Launceston:

Bearing kit - $98 per side
Left wheel cylinder - $80
Right wheel cylinder - $56
Brake shoes - $38 (both sides apparently)


I'll probably go with Suziworld:

Rear wheel brg kits $69.50ea
Rear brake shoes $55.00set of 4
Rear wheel cylinders $52.50ea

Righto, the parts are here. While I was waiting I decided to open up the rear diff to clean it out, as I had to chisel out the drain plug.
I found, along with all the little pieces of plug, that the oil seal protectors had worked their way into the diff. They are a little flogged, so I reckon they must have come loose before I pulled out the seals.
Are these usually replaced when replacing bearings? Or can I get away with using the old ones?

Hey mate , alwaysw best while apart to put new one's , also clean and check the diff centre , Cheers Paul.

and while you have the centre out you should make sure its nice and strong with the welder

Hey guys I'm pretty sure my seals have gone too. I've been leaking brake fluid somewhere and just noticed oil leaking (quite badly) out of each side of the rear axle housing. Is there a "how to" on here in the bible on how to give it a complete overhaul (wheel bearings, seals, brakes etc) cause I haven't ever done anything like this before. Should I be opening up the rear diff also to check anything like cairnszook did or isn't it necessary to give them an overhaul? Should I be buying the same stuff as cairnszook did or is there more to be bought?

Also on a side note what diff oil should I be using with a rear auto locker, I heard once that LSD oil is the go??

Not sure if there's a "how to" anywhere, but it wasn't too hard at all.

- With the wheel off, undo the 4 bolts holding on the drum.

- Put wheel back on, then pull. This will remove wheel and drum.

- You will be able now to inspect the wheel cylinders, see pics above ^.

- To remove the "inner drum" you will need to detach the handbrake cables and the solid brake lines too.

- Undo the 4 bolts on the inboard side of the drum, and the whole drum should come loose.

- Now bolt the outer drum back on "backwards" so you can lightly tap it with a hammer to pull out the axle.

- If you are replacing the bearings, then you will need to cut them and the spacers off with a grinder, careful not to cut into the axle itself.

- After they have been cut off you can remove the inner half of the drum and dismantle the brake shoe assembly.

- The new shoes I got had to me modified slightly to get the spacing correct. Very easy to do, just used a drill and a small file.

- I only did one side at a time, so I could look at the other one to see how it was put together.

The only reason I pulled apart the diff, was because I had to chisel out the drain plug. But that was very easy anyway.
Just undo the rear prop shaft, then the 8 or so bolts around the perimeter and, with a little persuasion it will come out. You don't even have to remove the whole thing from under the car.

Basically you can just follow the manual, and the only tools you will need is a decent set of spanners, sockets, grinder, hammer and a piece of 40mm dia pipe about a meter long (to reinstall bearings and spacers)


This was definitely the biggest job I have done on the Zook so far, and I was surprised at how easy it was.

And if you get stuck - just ask, heaps of your Outers Mates will be more than willing to help.

So I'll need to swipe some pipe from work then will I lol. I think I read something about be careful with the seals when replacing or they will stuff up again, what's the go with that?

This bit confuses me a little but I'm sure it'll make sense when I am looking at it
"- Now bolt the outer drum back on "backwards" so you can lightly tap it with a hammer to pull out the axle."

I guess I should buy a haynes manual or something like that.

I have the Haynes manual, it's not too bad.
I downloaded a manual from somewhere, maybe suzukinfo.com? Or something like that? It has much more detail.

The piece of pipe cost me $2 from a 2nd hand building supply place here in Lonnie.

Trouble with seals? Dunno about that one. I suppose time will tell.


And yeah, the "drum on backwards" thing is easy when you are looking at it.

take your wheel off , take the drum off , turn it arround , slide it over the studs and put the nuts back on half the thread into the nut , then use the drum as a slide hammer by moving it back towards the backing plate and pulling it out to hit the nuts , like a slide hammer , this should be enough to loosen the axle , don,t use a hammer as they are cast and could break.

When sliding in the axle , do not let it rest on the new seal which sits just inside the axle tube , you will damage it.

Also when using the pipe to put the bearings back on and the collar , be careful not to damage where the axle tube seal runs , otherwise it will chew out the new seal and you will be back at the start .

Find out who made your locker and get the correct advise on which type of oil , gear oil and diff oil are different grades and you should source the correct type , Cheers Paul.