Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi all,

What are the pro's and cons of dropping a 454 into a GQ? THe truck is a cut down GQ wagon, basically now a winch challenge truck and am looking for more power, I can get my hands on a 454 at a very good price and its a good motor not a peice of shit, not super hot, but I would get the heads done and a hotter cam in it anyway.

So anyone done this conversion?

I know people are going to say go the gen 3, but to be honest for now I need to spend money elsewhere and the 454 has come up very cheap if I want it. It's a 4 bolt with Billet crank and some work done to it, so its no slouch as it is now.

Motors aren't my thing so just thought I would ask and see what y'all think.

Cheers, Paul

Stool is curretly doing it. Pretty well got it sorted ready to drop in.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/pr ... ile&u=4049

im about to put a SB in my GQ, cant decide between a 351W/C or a 350 chev. all have advantages all dissadvantages. is it injected or card or gas? can you get approval easily enough?

beretta wrote:Hi all,

What are the pro's and cons of dropping a 454 into a GQ? THe truck is a cut down GQ wagon, basically now a winch challenge truck and am looking for more power, I can get my hands on a 454 at a very good price and its a good motor not a peice of shit, not super hot, but I would get the heads done and a hotter cam in it anyway.

So anyone done this conversion?

GQPatrol V8 (shane) was going to do a 454 when his 308 blew up.. I think he had issues with engineering it, or brakes n shizz.... but I cant remember, I've sent him a message hopin he will answer.... Maybe PM him.


the 454 ended up in his Hq-Hz Ute.

i think you should do it

454 would put a horn on a jelly fish

Hoonz wrote:i think you should do it

454 would put a horn on a jelly fish

wouldnt a 383 be better like Cheeze had in his?

Stool is in NSW and has engineering sorted. Braided brake lines and better pads.
Straight gas. 200ltrs.

They are HEAVY and very BIG. I wouldn't for the effort to squeeze everything into that engine bay. If you want the power go a small block or holden V8. Light is fast.

Big Blocks in my opion don't rev hard enough unless heavily moded to be a great comp truck engine, a really good engineered and tricked up smallblock would be a better choice.
Don't get me wrong, you can get big blocks to go hard, I have a 500ci (8.1 litre) that goes well and have had heaps of big block race engines on alcohol that were real goers, but the expense is heaps more than the cheaper small blocks.
The other thing is a good Alloy Small block is so much lighter for a comp truck that needs be as light as possible.
Thats the main reason I am sticking with the six in my GQ for the moment and running big boost to get the 250 odd rwkwatts.....Its great having next to no weight up front.

With the small block you have more room fo coilovers and bypass's etc as well.

Light weight wins every time.............power to weight ratio is a figure that can't be fudged.

there was a white with orange bouble paint job GQ from TAS or VIC in 4WD monthly couple years back, it was engineered with 454 n style side duel cab.

That belonged to Anthony Kilner... he had to go GU diffs with bigger brakes to get engineers cert.

If you look up http://www.antefiction.com.au/Af_GalahsDatto.htm all the articles are there.

BIG BLOCK all the way, NOTHING SOUNDS LIKE A FAT BLOCK!

A 454 is only 50mm longer and 50mm wider and 50mm taller than a 350 small block, so fitting it is easy, with cast iron heads and exhaust manifolds its also less than 80 lb [36kg] heavier than a small block as well, and they have the same bell housing bolt pattern, and the engine mounts are in the same spot as small block.

I had a very nice 454 in a previous truck I built back in 2000, and for $3500 and some time we built a 440hp and 650 ft lb engine with steel crank that loved to rev to 6500 rpm, and with 850 q jet would return 16lt per 100km hwy on 36" swampers.

It as a short wheel base, and also would wheelstand 1st gear, and 1st to second change.

Also have a truck we did some suspension on at work last week, which is 80 chassis, 75 body 512 ci injected which is 440kw and 1000nm @ the rear wheels on 35's.

Very easy to get massive torque out of the big blocks, and no harder to fit.

I think you will find there is a reason no one on the comp seen has the above mentioned motor in their winch truck.

Yep no problems engineerring a 454 in a GQ

jaybags wrote:I think you will find there is a reason no one on the comp seen has the above mentioned motor in their winch truck.

Any more ideas on why this might be?

berretta sounds like a goer for you then eh?

454 is a great engine,plenty of torque and power down low which is good for 4x4(crawling club/fun truck) but not as a comp winch truck were higher speeds come into play not the best option IMO
GQ's are pretty heavy in the front as it is,adding more weight not good.
Would be very hard on suspension gear and handling not so good.
Alloy chev V8 with less power would be a better balanced all rounder,of cause thats just IMO

By all means prove us all wrong,Go the BigBlock

Be interesting on the weight difference between the TD42 and a 454BB,the TD42 is a heavy lump of steel.

Shane

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

Always interesting seeing the different opinions. Given that it is 36 odd kgs heavier than a 350 I don't see a big disadvantage, the size doesn't bother me, we will have lots of room in the engine bay. BUT weight does bother me.

I am still seriously considering it, I like the idea of an iron block myself rather than alloy and I know this motor has got large balls and a little bit more work and it would go pretty hard, having said that I'm not some legend driver so it would take me some time to be able to drive it to its potential if ever.

So does anyone disagree that it is 36kgs more? Because in my book thats not a lot?

Sandy Rut wrote:berretta sounds like a goer for you then eh?

I'm leaning that way, someone is going to have to really talk me out of it.....will have a chat to my good mate Chucky aka turbogu and see what he reckons.......chucky?

ats4x4dotcom wrote:BIG BLOCK all the way, NOTHING SOUNDS LIKE A FAT BLOCK!

A 454 is only 50mm longer and 50mm wider and 50mm taller than a 350 small block, so fitting it is easy, with cast iron heads and exhaust manifolds its also less than 80 lb [36kg] heavier than a small block as well, and they have the same bell housing bolt pattern, and the engine mounts are in the same spot as small block.

I had a very nice 454 in a previous truck I built back in 2000, and for $3500 and some time we built a 440hp and 650 ft lb engine with steel crank that loved to rev to 6500 rpm, and with 850 q jet would return 16lt per 100km hwy on 36" swampers.

It as a short wheel base, and also would wheelstand 1st gear, and 1st to second change.

Also have a truck we did some suspension on at work last week, which is 80 chassis, 75 body 512 ci injected which is 440kw and 1000nm @ the rear wheels on 35's.

Very easy to get massive torque out of the big blocks, and no harder to fit.

Thanks for the info ATS, I might drop in sometime and say g'day now that I am living back in geelong!!

beretta wrote:Thanks for the info ATS, I might drop in sometime and say g'day now that I am living back in geelong!!

you could do worse than talk to Darren... believe me.

ats4x4dotcom wrote:

jaybags wrote:I think you will find there is a reason no one on the comp seen has the above mentioned motor in their winch truck.

Any more ideas on why this might be?

Well i am no expert but have done shitloads of reasearch and these guys(well known names in the comp scene) seem to go to great lengths to cut back on weight in their winch trucks. Now unless he is looking at running OBC and needs to do 1000klms a hour, why put such a large heavy motor in. And maybe what is mentioned above might be true also, that these motors are no good for reving shitloads. I dont know. For what i have seen winch comps consist of short runs between winches, yes speed helps between these climbs but nothing a 5lt or LS1 or LS2 wont handle. Or a stout TD4.2T. But i guess you must have more of a idea than me.

jaybags wrote:But i guess you must have more of a idea than me.

maybe lmao



http://cgi.ebay.com.au/GQ-PATROL-383-ST ... dZViewItem
how about this instead

ats4x4dotcom wrote:BIG BLOCK all the way, NOTHING SOUNDS LIKE A FAT BLOCK!

A 454 is only 50mm longer and 50mm wider and 50mm taller than a 350 small block, so fitting it is easy, with cast iron heads and exhaust manifolds its also less than 80 lb [36kg] heavier than a small block as well, and they have the same bell housing bolt pattern, and the engine mounts are in the same spot as small block.

I had a very nice 454 in a previous truck I built back in 2000, and for $3500 and some time we built a 440hp and 650 ft lb engine with steel crank that loved to rev to 6500 rpm, and with 850 q jet would return 16lt per 100km hwy on 36" swampers.

It as a short wheel base, and also would wheelstand 1st gear, and 1st to second change.

Also have a truck we did some suspension on at work last week, which is 80 chassis, 75 body 512 ci injected which is 440kw and 1000nm @ the rear wheels on 35's.

Very easy to get massive torque out of the big blocks, and no harder to fit.

Having been in the 75, it is awesome. I have driven Ant's 454 GQ and it has lots of torque, bugger all heavier than a GQ TB42, runs the same springs in it as my TB42. Darren's 40 was just scary.

IMHO you need a performance big block not a smog truck engine.

whats with this needing to rev thing in comp trucks,just change up a gear and use the grunt.The old pushrod TD42 wont rev but they seam to go alrite when tweaked,still wont rev but have plenty of grunt/torque.

Go the Big Block

I dont think anyone here who is suggesting options has ever had, or driven a big block. Ive had turbo intercooled 6's, hot 350's, and 383's and 400's, and 351's, and hot tb42', as well as 2 HSV's and now a VE SSV 6.0, and I can tell you.......

Once youve had BIG BLOCK there is no turning back........

As for weight, I got my big block down to way under a 350 weight will alloy components, and hand made extractors, all cheap, because people dont know much about big blocks and I also went to the trouble of moving the engine and gearbox etc back 3" to help with weight distrubution, which wasnt very difficult.

many years ago, someone I know had a 454 in a camaro, it had some suspension chnages, brake ducting, manual, and made over 600 rw hp, and it used to valve bounce at 9200 rpm, and late 80's 10 sec 1/4 miles on street tyres, through the mufflers was a quick car.

beretta wrote:

ats4x4dotcom wrote:BIG BLOCK all the way, NOTHING SOUNDS LIKE A FAT BLOCK!

A 454 is only 50mm longer and 50mm wider and 50mm taller than a 350 small block, so fitting it is easy, with cast iron heads and exhaust manifolds its also less than 80 lb [36kg] heavier than a small block as well, and they have the same bell housing bolt pattern, and the engine mounts are in the same spot as small block.

I had a very nice 454 in a previous truck I built back in 2000, and for $3500 and some time we built a 440hp and 650 ft lb engine with steel crank that loved to rev to 6500 rpm, and with 850 q jet would return 16lt per 100km hwy on 36" swampers.

It as a short wheel base, and also would wheelstand 1st gear, and 1st to second change.

Also have a truck we did some suspension on at work last week, which is 80 chassis, 75 body 512 ci injected which is 440kw and 1000nm @ the rear wheels on 35's.

Very easy to get massive torque out of the big blocks, and no harder to fit.

Thanks for the info ATS, I might drop in sometime and say g'day now that I am living back in geelong!!

For sure, feel free to call past, can go over all the big block details, and tell you what I have found, spending my money on such things previously

hi guys i just fitted a 8.2 502 ram jet chev to one of my customers
gu ute .
its great for torque and very agro its not an easy fit though but well worth all the hard work to make it work.
being a big block chev spend the money on a good radiator.

monstazook wrote:hi guys i just fitted a 8.2 502 ram jet chev to one of my customers
gu ute .
its great for tourqe and very agro its not an easy fit though but well worth all the hard work to make it work.
being a big block chev spend the money on a good radiator.

what would something like that set you (me) back

beretta wrote: I can get my hands on a 454 at a very good price

so have you bought this motor yet

dont get caught up in the 'rev it....go hard...' debate. There are 100000 more things that will determine whether you will win (finish...) stages and they are more crucial than the number of kg's the engine weighs, the number of kw's or precise rpm at redline.

As you say the motor has balls and you can get it cheap. Sounds like a pretty easy descision to make