Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hmm, its out now and I'm thinking this could be the only car that I would replace the '04 GV with.
I don't know much about diesels but this one seems to be lacking a few kw at 95. Did a quick search and found a mod that supposedly boosts the output of this engine to 112kW and 354NM. If thats true I think that would be enough to live with day to day.
And for me the other big thing is.... it gets traction control..!
I wonder if that will be any good offroad? Can't wait for someone to try it out.

We've had one for about a month now. Lots of turbo lag, although once its up in the rev range it's a good thing with plenty of power and decent fuel economy to boot. I haven't had it offroad myself but my workmate has, reckons its alright zinging around the sand dunes but even with the trac. control its not much chop offroad. Low ride height, IFS and IRS, large front and rear overhangs work against it. Still, nice 'car' and I quite like the styling...

Anyway check out the full report in Issue 119 of 4WD Action.

Momo wrote:I don't know much about diesels but this one seems to be lacking a few kw at 95.

Forget about the kW rating, diesel are all about low rev torque. That's what helps to get the vehicle accelerating. Take one for a test drive and you'll notice they're a lot different to a petrol engine in power delivery.

Awesome, looking forward to the read.

The old GV wasn't much chop offroad either without lift and tyres IIRC. I would lift it 2" and go one tyre size up before I ever headed to the beach in the diesel anyway.
And hopefully the traction control will offset the independent suspension factor.

Yes torque is all good, more important than peak power IMO. But 0-100 km/h times have suffered (13.2s quoted in this case) I guess because theres no real power increase when winding them out like a petrol engine.

Thats why a chip like the diesel-power one might convince me I can live with it if I can upgrade ASAP. I hope its not BS - here is the website
http://www.diesel-power.com/Artikel_Con ... _2227.html

I've been thinking about the diesel GV, and remembered when I first went to pick it up wondering if Suzuki could manage to keep some of that character that makes a Zook, a Zook with the diesel engine. Now, after driving it, I think they have but I'm not sure it's a good thing! What I mean is that it's like any Zook -- desperately needs more power down low but up in the rev range it's an admirable performer. Like you said Momo, it sorely needs a 2in lift and some decent boots (but what new 4WD doesn't). I think an auto gearbox would make it a lot more livable as a daily driver, because with the short first gear, rev limiter stuck around 4,200rpm and lack of low-down torque you find that once the clutch is out in first you're going for second straight away. Sadly there's no auto option at the moment.

Yeah I thought it might have been offered as an auto only, not the other way around. Maybe thats just a cost thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if an aftermarket tune could sort out the power delivery, assuming they can be tuned the way petrol turbos can. Especially if its all because of strict emission standards etc.
But it does sound a little worrying, given that I just sold the missus on the concept of effortless torque and just leaving it in 4th all day

Tuning might get some bottom end back - most modern diesels are defueled at low revs to stop them smoking, which creates a feeling of turbo lag, but an auto is really the way around the problem.

Once again, it's an example of Suzuki slightly missing the point either through a lack of development dollars or a lack of influence here in Australia. (Also, if the GV Diesel we're getting is a European model, there would be a much smaller market for the auto)

Steve.

That's a bit lame if they are lacking torque at low revs .

It's not suzuki's fault - it's all down to emissions. It's the same reason many drive by wire petrol cars have odd/doughy throttle feel off idle. The manufacturers keep the throttle effect soft to stop them richening up as quickly and releasing any unburnt hydrocarbons.

It CAN be tuned out - in the expense of smoke in the case of a diesel, and with careful engineering in a petrol.

My STi is drive by wire and the throttle response is every bit as good and intuitive as a cable, but it's a bit "shunty" in traffic and runs two cats to make emissions.

Both the Cooper S and Renault Clio Sport I owned before the STi had infuriating off idle and free revving throttle feel.

Most current diesels don't have the off idle "bite" of the older mechanical diesels. That's part of the reason they work better with autos.

I think "lacking torque at low revs" might be a bit harsh, I think "narrow power band" might be a better description.

Steve.

I'm kind of surprised that Suzuki didn't have the forethought to develop an auto box to put behind this engine. I think that modern turbo diesels and autos go so well together, in every environment -- from traffic to highway runs to beach work to low-range. Perfect example is the Sorento TD with its five-speed auto. It is effortless and such an enjoyable vehicle to drive.

Yeah I would be keen as if there was an auto option,we can only hope in time Suzuki come around to see many sales have been missed due too no auto box

Gwagensteve wrote: Both the Cooper S and Renault Clio Sport I owned before the STi had infuriating off idle and free revving throttle feel.

No need to remind me about the RS Clio- it peeves me everytime I drive mine! Off the lights it's frustrating when you're used to a cable throttle; double clutching is mission impossible too.

The five speed auto in my XL-7 would be perfect (with revised ratios) for the diesel GV. It's one of the best autos I've driven. Are they available overseas with an auto trans?

I am happy to be proven wrong, but it is the same engine available in the Megane? If so the Renault has a four speed auto backing it.

4130warrior wrote:I am happy to be proven wrong, but it is the same engine available in the Megane? If so the Renault has a four speed auto backing it.

Which will be transverse.

Steve.

Err, of course.

The new 3.0 common rail Nissan motor in the Patrol has that horrible 'doughy' feeling too! It needs to be driven like a 2 stroke bike, keep the revs up. The Hilux has it a bit but nowhere near as bad.
A slightly larger, freeflowing exhaust may help the issue with the new GV. Helps the turbo spool up quicker. And yes, an aftermarket computer would certainly help.
I agree with autos being best with the new diesels, they mask the lack of off-line take off and stop/start stuff well.

I took one for a spin today, and yes it has the dreaded turbo lag feel to it.
Whether its actually the turbo or the fuel tuning I can't be sure.
First is definately quite bad.

Hmmm, what to do. I was thinking of buying one on wednesday but there are so many things I'll have to do to get it up to scratch that I'm not sure I can be bothered right now.

I'd really like to know if the traction control does anything offroad. If its works then that would convince me (as I never ended up getting the traction control installed on my current GV).

100% it will be fueling and not "turbo lag." to be sure, bring the car up to about 2500rpm, steady cruise(not accelerating), and then floor it. The time between the pedal hitting the carpet and the car picking up is turbo lag.

I think what you're talking about is a "doughy" feel below maybe 1500-1800rpm, which has nothing to do with turbo lag - the turbo isn't making any boost down there- it's fuel being pulled out to stop smoke.

Personally, I wouldn't ever buy a manual diesel. As for the IRS/IFS and traction control? I couldn't comfortably take the new vitara off road. However, I'm a hard user and not the best judge. I f your current GV is adequate and you haven't broken anything then it might be fine.

Still think it needs an auto though.

Steve.

Yes I'm sorry I don't actually mean 'turbo lag' but thats just what most people call it.
The question is, is it outside the boost threshold under 2000rpm? I guess so. Maybe I was expecting it to feel more like a supercharger being the first diesel I've driven. Obviously thats not the case.
Lag will be an issue in first gear though as theres not enough time/loading to spool up as the revs increase.
Either way the chip for $990 sounds like it would be money well spent.

The beach will be its main offroad environment, with 2 bubs in the back I've been told rocks and ditches are now history. I think the clearance will be pretty good in sand with the flat underside but articulation is going to be the worst aspect. I just hate getting stuck crossed up on a little sand hump.

Hmm its a lot of money for a little extra room and downgrading offroad performance. Decisions decisions.

Momo wrote: The question is, is it outside the boost threshold under 2000rpm? I guess so. Maybe I was expecting it to feel more like a supercharger being the first diesel I've driven. Obviously thats not the case.
Lag will be an issue in first gear though as theres not enough time/loading to spool up as the revs increase.
Either way the chip for $990 sounds like it would be money well spent.

with a diesel the boost is more dependant on the load than the revs, as you load the engine, more fuel goes in, more gas comes out, the more boost, allowing for more fuel, creating more boost, and so on. so it is a slow process.

in a common rail system (and HEUI), it will inject 3 times every time it fires for the best combustion.

if first gear is so low, take off in second. as long as you dont need to ride the clutch it will be fine.

i would be very wary of spending $1k on a chip. it may increase the peak power, but it is a lot of money to lay down on 18kw.imo.
you could buy a better turbo for that.

crackatinny wrote: you could buy a better turbo for that.

Maybe, but then how would you tune the engine to work with the "better" turbo? THat's gonna cost. Mechanical parts always seem cheap compared to a little black box, but there's lots of man hours writing software in those little boxes, for better or worse.

IMHO plugging chips into modern diesels to crank big numbers out of them is a bit fraught. These little motors make such big torque stock that you risk really shortening lots of other driveline components life by doing it. You'll also be throwing away your warranty.

Steve.

Well ,I'm picking one up next week. They got me with the 5 year warranty offer going ATM.
I've ordered some tough dog coils and Cooper ATR's to go on ASAP.
If I get the car early enough to put the springs on I can get it aligned w/ camber bolts before the easter weekend and take it for a decent spin.

I'm a bit scared of all the electronic interuptions getting in the way offroad, hate to get bogged on the beach because ESP cuts power or something. I'll know soon enough.

Is there anything to be mindful of running in a new diesel?

Also found this vid showing the traction control doing its thing on an uphill climb,
looks like it should be useful :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV-4uYpK ... re=related

Nothing to be especially mindful of, but do bear in mind Suzuki can be very very inflexible when it comes to modifications and warranty work.

Swapping coils and tyres send a clear message that you are an off road user and a search on here will reveal the owners that have had warranty denied because of modifications and off road use.

Just something to be aware of.

Steve.

Yes, ask the dealer before you do any mods. If the dealer is on your side they can push through any claims that might otherwise be rejected.

Yeah I've heard Suzuki Aus can be painful to deal with. I'm on friendly terms with the owner of the dealership and buy straight thru him.

Its my 3rd GV and the first one, 98 model, had 3 transfer cases in the first few months. Must have cost Suzuki a fortune, but it was their fault.
I think knowing the service manager and owner definately has made a difference.
Anyway its the engine i really want the warranty for, being a Renault motor and all.

Picked up the car today, its so much nicer to drive and has a real quality feel to it.

The rear springs are in and I've pulled the front struts out to get someone to change the springs for me.
Feels wierd pulling a new car apart...

what brand did you use and how much lift? the only one i know of sofar is dobinson..

Steer well clear of bio-fuels!!!!!!!!!

We have had a number of our Hilux's and Hiaces with the common rail diesels die due to unknown fuel contaminants, and they are not covered by warranty. Total bill is usually around $8-9000. Make sure the fuel filter is changed regularly too.

I went with Pedders lift in the end, the Tough Dog coils had to be made as the part numbers don't exist yet (probably do now because of me) and was shocked that my local pedders had a set on the shelf.

I've had them before and thought they were too harsh, seems OK on this car though. Gave about 35mm lift and with the tyres about 55mm all up. The speedo isn't out (strange) and its awesome to drive without putting CV's under too much stress so I'm happy.

Anyone want to buy new TD coils? New and unused

With the fuel, should I steer clear of BP ultimate diesel?
Who do you recommend to buy from?