E85 Petrol is coming
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:40 pm
I saw E85 (yes 85% ethanol) petrol at a servo the other day, they said they are trialling it so its not for sale yet. But at 98cpl it'd prolly sell quickly. Anyway has anyone used it?
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:53 pm
it will void any new car warranty....
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:13 pm
It's a little iffy imho. Ethanol is hydrophilic, not really so good for a lot of cars. So... hmm.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:23 pm
What does hydrophylic mean? 98cpl isn't iffy thoughchimpboy wrote:It's a little iffy imho. Ethanol is hydrophilic, not really so good for a lot of cars. So... hmm.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:26 pm
I was reading a news article on the new Holden Coupe today, which mentioned the V8 is E85 compatible - I didn't see the relevance at the time.
As I understand it, ethanol creates two problems.
First, as it's hydrophilic, it promotes corrosion.
Second, it creates problems with some rubber components (don't remember how/why.)
The rubber issue apparently only affects older vehicles - newer vehicles supposedly have rubbers better suited to ethanol usage.
The corrosion issue is the big one. A few years back I read some figures about "ethanol proofing" an engine for the Brazil market - something like 80% of engine components had to be re-specified.
I wouldn't be in a hurry to run it. I'm still thinking hard about E10.
As I understand it, ethanol creates two problems.
First, as it's hydrophilic, it promotes corrosion.
Second, it creates problems with some rubber components (don't remember how/why.)
The rubber issue apparently only affects older vehicles - newer vehicles supposedly have rubbers better suited to ethanol usage.
The corrosion issue is the big one. A few years back I read some figures about "ethanol proofing" an engine for the Brazil market - something like 80% of engine components had to be re-specified.
I wouldn't be in a hurry to run it. I'm still thinking hard about E10.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:30 pm
Hydro - waterSigjero wrote:What does hydrophylic mean? 98cpl isn't iffy thoughchimpboy wrote:It's a little iffy imho. Ethanol is hydrophilic, not really so good for a lot of cars. So... hmm.
Philic (sp?) - loves/attracts
Hydrophilic substances love water.
Petrol doesn't mix with water, so doesn't tend to absorb moisture from the air. Ethanol readily absorbs moisture from the air.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:26 pm
Cant be all bad. Brazil uses it and i'm pretty sure other places do to. Probably need to change a few fue lines.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:27 pm
lolJimbo wrote:Cant be all bad. Brazil uses it and i'm pretty sure other places do to. Probably need to change a few fue lines.
You didn't read Scott's first post did u
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:37 pm
considering the damage i've seen E10 do to some feul systems, this stuff is realy going to hurt some people.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:58 pm
What damage have you seen E10 do? Anything specific on type of damage and vehicle make & engine?brad-chevlux wrote:considering the damage i've seen E10 do to some feul systems, this stuff is realy going to hurt some people.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:21 pm
They change fuel system materials and recalibrate the computer and they dont change the engine internals!!!
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:41 pm
Sigjero wrote:What damage have you seen E10 do? Anything specific on type of damage and vehicle make & engine?brad-chevlux wrote:considering the damage i've seen E10 do to some feul systems, this stuff is realy going to hurt some people.
most of it has been problems with the flexible hoses used in the system.
some of it goes rock hard and cracks, with other brands tend to turn to jelly, much like what auto fluid does to rubber hoses. the last one we had was a few weeks ago, A 2000 modle mitsu express van, the very last of the carburated ones, the feul hose from the tank to the solid line on the chassis had gone like jelly, leaking feul, one the line from the filter to the carb had started to aswell. found the float bowl full of rubber.
have seen a few cars with alloy lines filling carbs and injectors rails with white crap too. But those cars had been using it since it first hit the shelves.
the biggest problem is people not realising what the stuff can do and blindly using it
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:22 pm
My mrs has been using it (the united stuff) in her mid 90's lancer (carby) since it came out. Runs better and similar km.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:28 pm
u beat me to it sigjero
we were thinking of buying the e85 and mixing it with regular unleaded to mix it up a bit..
i was thinking 20l or e85 and 110l of regular should be ok
i have run the e10 in the GU when on long highway trips etc.. and it gave me better fuel economy
i got the GU down to 16l per hundred
we were thinking of buying the e85 and mixing it with regular unleaded to mix it up a bit..
i was thinking 20l or e85 and 110l of regular should be ok
i have run the e10 in the GU when on long highway trips etc.. and it gave me better fuel economy
i got the GU down to 16l per hundred Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:28 pm
i still have to convince the guy at the servo to sell me some to try out..
i was going to use it on the boat also
i was going to use it on the boat also
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:29 pm
apparently the ethanol fuel isnt good on carbys but anyone know anything about this??
anyone know anything about this??Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:31 pm
yeah, diff fuels can be dodgy.
Vege oil is so acidic that it eats through std rubber fuel lines very quickly.
But generally the cost of producing a crop for fuel takes more fuel than is generated.
Vege oil is so acidic that it eats through std rubber fuel lines very quickly.
But generally the cost of producing a crop for fuel takes more fuel than is generated.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:41 pm
but if u can mix it with enough regular it should make it ok right??pongo wrote:yeah, diff fuels can be dodgy.
Vege oil is so acidic that it eats through std rubber fuel lines very quickly.
But generally the cost of producing a crop for fuel takes more fuel than is generated.
20l mixed with 110l should be ok shouldt it?
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:54 pm
brilliant thinking.. save $2.00 a tank and have a $5000 repair billSigjero wrote:98cpl isn't iffy though
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:30 pm
not necessarilybogged wrote:brilliant thinking.. save $2.00 a tank and have a $5000 repair billSigjero wrote:98cpl isn't iffy though
why cant you buy it and mix it?
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:02 am
Late model Chev's (most 2003 onwards) are E85 compatible.
J-Top, re running it in your boat, didn't someone say it absorbed moisture?
J-Top, re running it in your boat, didn't someone say it absorbed moisture?
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:10 am
yeh, once i had a little water in the tank and the outboard ran like a dog and kept stalling etc..sierrajim wrote: J-Top, re running it in your boat, didn't someone say it absorbed moisture?
so we put some e10 in it and it ran like normal again
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:58 am
That is a trick we have been using for years, if you cop a bit of fuel with water in it, you add some methanol, which absorbs the water, and lets you burn it harmlessly. The methanol (straight) corrodes alloy and eats rubber, but when mixed is relatively safe, especially when you wash it thru with straight petrol afterwards.
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:44 pm
I sean in the paper that one of the V8 super car teams are going to run it next year.
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:29 pm
The whole field is going to run it, not 1 team.98lux wrote:I sean in the paper that one of the V8 super car teams are going to run it next year.
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:47 pm
all our petrol vehicles at work (all fleet australia vehicles), ranging from commodores/falcons to v8 cruisers are encouraged to fill up using e10.
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:35 pm
I doubt it on an $800 carbogged wrote:brilliant thinking.. save $2.00 a tank and have a $5000 repair billSigjero wrote:98cpl isn't iffy though
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:38 pm
Thanks man, now I know what to look for I'll keep an eye on hoses and see how it goes, as for the float bowl filling with crap an inline fuel filter should catch this shouldn't it?brad-chevlux wrote:Sigjero wrote:What damage have you seen E10 do? Anything specific on type of damage and vehicle make & engine?brad-chevlux wrote:considering the damage i've seen E10 do to some feul systems, this stuff is realy going to hurt some people.
most of it has been problems with the flexible hoses used in the system.
some of it goes rock hard and cracks, with other brands tend to turn to jelly, much like what auto fluid does to rubber hoses. the last one we had was a few weeks ago, A 2000 modle mitsu express van, the very last of the carburated ones, the feul hose from the tank to the solid line on the chassis had gone like jelly, leaking feul, one the line from the filter to the carb had started to aswell. found the float bowl full of rubber.
have seen a few cars with alloy lines filling carbs and injectors rails with white crap too. But those cars had been using it since it first hit the shelves.
the biggest problem is people not realising what the stuff can do and blindly using it
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:58 pm
So it's a bit like aviation fuel then.-Scott- wrote:Hydro - waterSigjero wrote:What does hydrophylic mean? 98cpl isn't iffy thoughchimpboy wrote:It's a little iffy imho. Ethanol is hydrophilic, not really so good for a lot of cars. So... hmm.
Philic (sp?) - loves/attracts
Hydrophilic substances love water.
Petrol doesn't mix with water, so doesn't tend to absorb moisture from the air. Ethanol readily absorbs moisture from the air.
I used to run AV gas in my bike and I was always draining water out of of the float bowl & fuel tank. The fuel used to leak through the fuel c*ck and out all the seals in the carbi too leaving green stains everywhere.
Cheers Mick.
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:11 pm
Sigjero wrote:Thanks man, now I know what to look for I'll keep an eye on hoses and see how it goes, as for the float bowl filling with crap an inline fuel filter should catch this shouldn't it?brad-chevlux wrote:Sigjero wrote:What damage have you seen E10 do? Anything specific on type of damage and vehicle make & engine?brad-chevlux wrote:considering the damage i've seen E10 do to some feul systems, this stuff is realy going to hurt some people.
most of it has been problems with the flexible hoses used in the system.
some of it goes rock hard and cracks, with other brands tend to turn to jelly, much like what auto fluid does to rubber hoses. the last one we had was a few weeks ago, A 2000 modle mitsu express van, the very last of the carburated ones, the feul hose from the tank to the solid line on the chassis had gone like jelly, leaking feul, one the line from the filter to the carb had started to aswell. found the float bowl full of rubber.
have seen a few cars with alloy lines filling carbs and injectors rails with white crap too. But those cars had been using it since it first hit the shelves.
the biggest problem is people not realising what the stuff can do and blindly using it
grab a ryco Z200 or equivelent filter andput it as close to the carb as you can, 20cm at most. use new fuel hose between the filter and the carb.
If you are going to run E10 or E85 replace all the rubber hose in the system with speedflow 400 series hose or equivelent from earls, russel ect. it'll stand up to the ethenol better.
and just remember the stoichemetric ratio for ethenol is not the same as for petrol. With E85 carby engines WILL need rejetting to run it. then you'll be stuck with it for good, so make sure it's really what you want