Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I'll pre-empt this by saying that i presently know bugger all about this topic so forgive me if this is a dumb question.

I'm curious as to what is the difference between a UHF radio and a CB?

I'm looking at installing one in my vehicle as we often fish remote places in SA (Yalata and Salt Creek) so want a radio with decent range in case we one day come unstuck in the middle of nowhere. We're doing a trip along the Oodnadatta Track to Ayres Rock this year also so i need the radio for that.

A mate told me that you need a licence to have a UHF... is this true?

Also for the uses i need it for what would be my best option?

If anyone could put some clarity on this issue it'd be much appreciated so i know what to look for.

Cheers in advance.

gravel wrote: A mate told me that you need a licence to have a UHF... is this true?

UHF means Ultra-High frequency

CB- Citizens band - ie, anyone can broadcast on it.

The basic UHF's you will see in camping or 4x4 shops will operate only on CB frequencies. So you don't need a license.

AM is probably the other type your thinking of. No one uses it anymore unless their big on radio stuff. Its old skool.

For an off the shelf sorta thing UHF is the go. And from the sounds of it this is all you want.


http://www.prestigecom.net.au/ these guys seem to be the cheapest and others on this forum have bought off them. If you find some place cheaper, please. Let us know

as far as i know, a high quality cb radio will transmit further then a uhf radio, how ever here is where you run into the cross roads, cb is am modulation, meaning old school, uhf uses fm modulation, new school, much clearer, its like trying to compare the two bands on your radio, am can be heard further but is very crackely, also you will generally find more people on the UHF bands, so if your lost transmitting on ch5 uhf would be the go (emergency ch).

As far as needing a license for one though, i have never heard of this before, apart from maybe a very high powered home base radio, but as far as vehicle comms go, you don't need one.

From my point of view your best bet would be to get a high powered (5W or above transmitting power) UHF radio and a large style antenna, the more db gain the more receptive power the antenna has, look for 9 or 12 db or more if your touring.

just my 2c

gravel wrote:want a radio with decent range in case we one day come unstuck in the middle of nowhere. We're doing a trip along the Oodnadatta Track to Ayres Rock this year also so i need the radio for that.

Out in the middle of no-where, you don't need a CB, you need to rent a satellite phone, just for your trip.

The other alternative is a Codan VHF setup.

Just how remote you are going will depend on what you need to get. Please include all info, like the number of days between seeing other people, water and populated areas would be good.

If your staying on highways, then a red hanky will do!

cooki_monsta wrote: the more db gain the more receptive power the antenna has, look for 9 or 12 db or more if your touring.
just my 2c

4.5db for hilly/foresty areas, 9db- 12db more for wide open areas like the desert/ wide open roads

v6hilux wrote:

gravel wrote:want a radio with decent range in case we one day come unstuck in the middle of nowhere. We're doing a trip along the Oodnadatta Track to Ayres Rock this year also so i need the radio for that.

Out in the middle of no-where, you don't need a CB, you need to rent a satellite phone, just for your trip.

The other alternative is a Codan VHF setup.

what he said... UHF or 27meg (CB) MAY get you someone, but Satphone or HF will always get someone.

cooki_monsta wrote: cb is am modulation

RockyF75 wrote:

http://www.prestigecom.net.au/ these guys seem to be the cheapest and others on this forum have bought off them. If you find some place cheaper, please. Let us know

metro communications near hurstville are also good.. cant think of their website but

gravel wrote:
A mate told me that you need a licence to have a UHF... is this true?

i wish this was true it would limit the amount of morons

find out what your mates etc... use and get the same thing.

theres no point in you getting a HF cb if all your mates are on UHF.

basically there are 2 options available to people.

HF CB or 27mhz, and with this there is AM, USB, LSB, FM, CW etc......

and

UHF CB being 477mhz

cooki_monsta wrote:
From my point of view your best bet would be to get a high powered (5W or above transmitting power) UHF radio and a large style antenna, the more db gain the more receptive power the antenna has, look for 9 or 12 db or more if your touring.

i wouldnt get more than a 6dbi if your going anywhere hilly.

5W is the legal limit but there are many many comercial radios being used out there that put out 25W (icom 400pro is the most common and readily available) i use a kenwood with 50W.

just keep in mind it is illegal to transmit more than 5W but the ACA are a joke and dont give a stuff about the 476-477mhz band so the chances of getting caught are slim

HTTP://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_1688

http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/SEARCH//pc=S ... YSSearch=Y

j-top paj wrote:

cooki_monsta wrote: cb is am modulation

is this like am .. modulation modulation

roverrat wrote:

j-top paj wrote:

cooki_monsta wrote: cb is am modulation

is this like am .. modulation modulation

Just like going to the ATM machine isnt it?

mattsluxtruck wrote:

roverrat wrote:

j-top paj wrote:

cooki_monsta wrote: cb is am modulation

is this like am .. modulation modulation

Just like going to the ATM machine isnt it?

And using your PIN Number

uhf for vehicle to vehicle comms, short distance legally 5w is max although some of the icom's can be wound up to 20-25w only useful is someone else has the same power output but this is not legal.

AM SSB (amplitude modulation single side band) will give you the best range except for satfone and HF but there might not be anyone listening. im going to put mine back in to see who still uses it as the uhf band seems to be filling up with dickheads at an alarming rate.

bigcam wrote:....as the uhf band seems to be filling up with dickheads at an alarming rate.

all but useless now in suburbia... :(

For all the experts-

Adding to Rocky's post,

AM - Aplitude Modulation
SSB - Single Side Band
LSB - Lower Side Band
USB - Upper Side Band
FM - Frequency Modulation
HF - High Frequency
VHF - Very High Frequency
UHF - Ultra High Frequency
CB - Citizens Band
CW - Carrier Wave

bigcam wrote: AM SSB (amplitude modulation single side band) will give you the best range except for satfone and HF but there might not be anyone listening. im going to put mine back in to see who still uses it as the uhf band seems to be filling up with dickheads at an alarming rate.

Lots of range but unpredictable (i.e. highly dependant on weather conditions, etc)...

I just drove 7000km from Bris-Perth (via syd,mel.adel) with the AM switched on. Not a soul... Made it great for convoy work.

bogged wrote:

bigcam wrote:....as the uhf band seems to be filling up with dickheads at an alarming rate.

all but useless now in suburbia... :(

I think this is why they chopped our repeaters in the ACT, havnt had any since the fires.

mkpatrol wrote:I think this is why they chopped our repeaters in the ACT, havnt had any since the fires.

interesting... no 'private' ones round?

bigcam wrote: im going to put mine back in to see who still uses it as the uhf band seems to be filling up with dickheads at an alarming rate.

dont bother its the same dickheads using HF as the ones using UHF.
(here in shitney anyway... same clowns on 35 lower that frequent the repeaters)

v6hilux wrote:For all the experts-

Adding to Rocky's post,

AM - Aplitude Modulation
SSB - Single Side Band
LSB - Lower Side Band
USB - Upper Side Band
FM - Frequency Modulation
HF - High Frequency
VHF - Very High Frequency
UHF - Ultra High Frequency
CB - Citizens Band
CW - Carrier Wave

might as well add
SHF, ULF, RTTY, FSK etc etc etc..... the list can go on and on

mkpatrol wrote:

bogged wrote:

bigcam wrote:....as the uhf band seems to be filling up with dickheads at an alarming rate.

all but useless now in suburbia... :(

I think this is why they chopped our repeaters in the ACT, havnt had any since the fires.

not even Ginini?
that repeater was good. i used to swing the beam and use it to talk to mates down in cooma back in the day..

you guys cant access braidwood at all? ch3 i think it was.

I think all the technical jargon's been pretty well covered already. For general communication the best cb radio to use would be a UHF. However, if you only want to communicate with your mates in convoy and they have one, then a AM radio may be the go to cut down on all the dickheads out there. For rescue, etc. in remote areas then Satellite phone or HF radio is the go.

By the sounds of your original post i'd suggest a UHF radio with a high-gain antenna. As stated, put your money together as a group and hire a SATphone to share when you do your outback trip (can phone home, work,etc. if need/want to).

I'm not familiar with your fishing spots, etc. If you're on your own in a remote location then there's probably not much point in a cb at all. Another option not mentioned, for purely emergency rescue purposes only, would be to carry an EPIRB device which emits a distress signal alerting rescuers to your location via satelite.

GQ Bear wrote:
By the sounds of your original post i'd suggest a UHF radio with a high-gain antenna.

why do you suggest a high gain antenna?

j-top paj wrote:

GQ Bear wrote:
By the sounds of your original post i'd suggest a UHF radio with a high-gain antenna.

why do you suggest a high gain antenna?

Cause he wants to do long, open flat touring one day

HotFourOk wrote:

mattsluxtruck wrote:

roverrat wrote:

j-top paj wrote:

cooki_monsta wrote: cb is am modulation

is this like am .. modulation modulation

Just like going to the ATM machine isnt it?

And using your PIN Number

and 7 am in the morning, what can i say, im a genius

To stay legal, UHF is limited to 5W, so the range (without repeaters) is limited - particularly as UHF is pretty much a "line of sight" signal which doesn't work well in heavy trees or mountainous terrain.

HF (i.e. Codan/Barrett/"RFDS style" radios) can use higher power and get incredible range, but is highly dependent on weather conditions - and generally requires a knowledgeable user. (Note that AM CBs also operate in the HF band, and SSB operation can also achieve incredible range when weather conditions are correct.)

"Satphone" isn't the answer - well, not any more than "a radio" is the answer. The cheaper satphones (i.e. Globalstar) operate on what's referred to as a "bent pipe" principle, where coverage is only available when the satellite can see both the phone and a base station - at the same time. Because the satellites don't talk to each other, the "pipe" picks up the signal and "bends" it back down. Last time I checked there were only three Globalstar base stations in Australia, so they can be really hit and miss in remote areas - you may receive coverage for only a few minutes every few hours.

However, satphone is a fabulous solution - if you go with the right operator, which typically costs more. For example, the Iridium network bounces signals between satellites to find a ground station, so if the phone can see a satellite (which is most of the time) you'll typically get coverage. Finding somebody to hire out an Iridium satphone can be tricky - most seem to want to push Globalstar, probably because it's cheaper. Also remember that it's higher frequency than UHF, so it's even more affected by heavy tree cover and steep mountains - if the phone doesn't have "line of sight" to the satellite you could still be in trouble.

RockyF75 wrote:

j-top paj wrote:

GQ Bear wrote:
By the sounds of your original post i'd suggest a UHF radio with a high-gain antenna.

why do you suggest a high gain antenna?

Cause he wants to do long, open flat touring one day

And he fishes in remote parts of SA, which i'm assuming are fairly flat, open spaces with similar travelling back and forth. Low-gain are more suited to hilly areas and won't usually transmit as far.