Outer Limits 4x4 Board

changed my thermostat on the patrol the other day the try cure the problem of running to cool, genuine nissan thermostat and hasnt made a difference except for it heats up quicker so ive herd you can mod them to make it open later td42 patrol

dez

Nissan, at least on my MQ, makes thermostats for different conditions which open at different temps. On my MQ these were Standard 82º, Frigid 88º and tropical 76.5º. If you have a tropical thermostat your engine will run cool in a temperate climate. It is easy to check as the opening temp is usually marked on the thermostat.

David_S wrote:Nissan, at least on my MQ, makes thermostats for different conditions which open at different temps. On my MQ these were Standard 82º, Frigid 88º and tropical 76.5º. If you have a tropical thermostat your engine will run cool in a temperate climate. It is easy to check as the opening temp is usually marked on the thermostat.

not over here they dont

If they still do over there id be happy enough to chase one

Are you sure the thermostat is opening too early??? have you actually checked the engine temp or are you going off the gauge?

pongo wrote: not over here they dont

If they still do over there id be happy enough to chase one

I took my tropical thermostat out and replaced it with a standard precisely because my truck was running too cool when I brought it back to NZ. Still have the troppo one as a spare.

its a genuine 76.5 thermostat wasnt a choice only one aviable, im going off the gauge which seems to be good as far a i can tell maybe wrong, how do i go about checkin the temp manually?

cheers dez

I'd be looking for a different thermostat. 76.5 is low for a thermostat, 82 degrees is what I'm used to.

Before you fark around with anything else, find an 82 degree thermostat and try that.

FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic.

-Scott- wrote:I'd be looking for a different thermostat. 76.5 is low for a thermostat, 82 degrees is what I'm used to.

Before you fark around with anything else, find an 82 degree thermostat and try that.

FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic. :lol:

Dingle dangle doohicky is tiny, doubt that flow would cool an engine in any meaningful way.

It;s there to let air through so the system fills properly, and it should be at the top.

Guess this makes me one of those that disagree :)

Paul

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:

-Scott- wrote:I'd be looking for a different thermostat. 76.5 is low for a thermostat, 82 degrees is what I'm used to.

Before you fark around with anything else, find an 82 degree thermostat and try that.

FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic.

Dingle dangle doohicky is tiny, doubt that flow would cool an engine in any meaningful way.

It;s there to let air through so the system fills properly, and it should be at the top.

Guess this makes me one of those that disagree

Paul

it also allow's water to work it's way around and open's the thermostat WHEN the block is at operating temperature, NOT when your gauge says it is. not a good move at all... have another look at your thermostat and the flow of the motor and which side the "operating" spring is.

-Scott- wrote:I'd be looking for a different thermostat. 76.5 is low for a thermostat, 82 degrees is what I'm used to.

Before you fark around with anything else, find an 82 degree thermostat and try that.

FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic.

Funny because I've always been in the habit of drilling a 1/8" hole in any thermostat I get that doesn't have the jiggle pin and the hole already in it (okay not really, but you get my point). I am neutral on the jingle pin but in favour of the hole, because I agree with neuralfibre, it helps prevent air pockets in the cooling system, and that's pretty important.

But yes, it will slightly delay an engine coming to temperature.

shakes wrote:

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:

-Scott- wrote:I'd be looking for a different thermostat. 76.5 is low for a thermostat, 82 degrees is what I'm used to.

Before you fark around with anything else, find an 82 degree thermostat and try that.

FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic.

Dingle dangle doohicky is tiny, doubt that flow would cool an engine in any meaningful way.

It;s there to let air through so the system fills properly, and it should be at the top.

Guess this makes me one of those that disagree

Paul

it also allow's water to work it's way around and open's the thermostat WHEN the block is at operating temperature, NOT when your gauge says it is. not a good move at all... have another look at your thermostat and the flow of the motor and which side the "operating" spring is.

the spring has nothing to do with the thermostat opening , it is only there to close it

if you want it to run hotter you can remove that steel pin in the middle of the thermostat , grind off about 2 to 3 mm of the outer bit ( not the pointy end) put it back in , test it in a pot of water on the stove to make sure you didnt take off too much , put it back in the car and go for a drive

i did this to mine and although it runs hotter it has stopped peaking at 3/4 or higher going up big hills , another plus is the fan very rareley engages where before it was always engaged and roaring its head off

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:Dingle dangle doohicky is tiny, doubt that flow would cool an engine in any meaningful way.

Yet old-school mechanics drill a tiny hole in the thermostat to help the engine run cooler?

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:It;s there to let air through so the system fills properly, and it should be at the top.

So it's there ONLY for when you're filling the system? Sounds like a poor solution to me.

What do I do when the thermostat sits horizontal?

shakes wrote:it also allow's water to work it's way around and open's the thermostat WHEN the block is at operating temperature.

Nope, don't buy that either. Ever heard of convection currents? Design the cooling system properly and convection will carry the heat to the thermostat anyway. Still see it as a poor solution.

chimpboy wrote:Funny because I've always been in the habit of drilling a 1/8" hole in any thermostat I get that doesn't have the jiggle pin and the hole already in it ... I agree with neuralfibre,

Hang on.

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:Dingle dangle doohicky is tiny, doubt that flow would cool an engine in any meaningful way.

Huh?



I don't doubt that some engines need it. But for engines that were designed without it, and worked quite happily for years without it, I don't think putting one in is a good thing. Which category does DEZ's Patrol fall into?

chimpboy wrote:

-Scott- wrote:I'd be looking for a different thermostat. 76.5 is low for a thermostat, 82 degrees is what I'm used to.

Before you fark around with anything else, find an 82 degree thermostat and try that.

FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic.

Funny because I've always been in the habit of drilling a 1/8" hole in any thermostat I get that doesn't have the jiggle pin and the hole already in it (okay not really, but you get my point). I am neutral on the jingle pin but in favour of the hole, because I agree with neuralfibre, it helps prevent air pockets in the cooling system, and that's pretty important.

But yes, it will slightly delay an engine coming to temperature.

I do the same, if it doesnt have the hole (which a lot of aftermarket dont ) i drill a hole in it.

Loanrangie wrote:

chimpboy wrote:

-Scott- wrote:I'd be looking for a different thermostat. 76.5 is low for a thermostat, 82 degrees is what I'm used to.

Before you fark around with anything else, find an 82 degree thermostat and try that.

FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic.

Funny because I've always been in the habit of drilling a 1/8" hole in any thermostat I get that doesn't have the jiggle pin and the hole already in it (okay not really, but you get my point). I am neutral on the jingle pin but in favour of the hole, because I agree with neuralfibre, it helps prevent air pockets in the cooling system, and that's pretty important.

But yes, it will slightly delay an engine coming to temperature.

I do the same, if it doesnt have the hole (which a lot of aftermarket dont ) i drill a hole in it.

i used to do the same but my position has changed to the opposite and block the hole if it is there seem to get better results

[/quote]if you want it to run hotter you can remove that steel pin in the middle of the thermostat , grind off about 2 to 3 mm of the outer bit ( not the pointy end) put it back in , test it in a pot of water on the stove to make sure you didnt take off too much , put it back in the car and go for a drive[/quote]

ok so its the end that points down when in, it has the spring a flat washer to hold the spring and a clip to hold it in. Theres not much room to take alot off without ruining the clip groove.?? the end that sticks up when in which is pointy thought it would be that one ??

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... 47#1340347

there is a pic of the thermostat in this thread and it is the little skinny pin at the top when fitted , if you pull on the lower disk to open the thermostat then twist to one side as shown in the pic , then pull that pin out , grind off 2 to 3mm off the top not the end that slides into the thermostat

and an aftermarket thermostat is fine to use as they are easier to mod

-Scott- wrote:FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic.

Think of it this way .........

Why would an automotive engineer include it into the design, why would they spend thousands of hours in testing & thousands of dollars in R&D for you to know better and block it off ????

Same thing applies to those that drill a hole..... do you think the designer / manafacturer couldnt be bothered adding the hole

V8Patrol wrote: Why would an automotive engineer include it into the design, why would they spend thousands of hours in testing & thousands of dollars in R&D for you to know better and block it off ????

I was wondering the same thing!

V8Patrol wrote:

-Scott- wrote:FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic.

Think of it this way .........

Why would an automotive engineer include it into the design, why would they spend thousands of hours in testing & thousands of dollars in R&D for you to know better and block it off ????

Same thing applies to those that drill a hole..... do you think the designer / manafacturer couldnt be bothered adding the hole

In my tb42 powered patrol, and several L series datsun motor's, without the hole the overheated to the point of putting water out of the overflow before the thermostat would open.

with a 1/8th hole in them the thermostat would open at the correct temperature... same thermostat, added a hole no overheating.

Simon

V8Patrol wrote:

-Scott- wrote:FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic.

Think of it this way .........

Why would an automotive engineer include it into the design, why would they spend thousands of hours in testing & thousands of dollars in R&D for you to know better and block it off ????

Same thing applies to those that drill a hole..... do you think the designer / manafacturer couldnt be bothered adding the hole

It's often an issue with aftermarket thermostats... they come with no hole, but should have one.

I am pretty sure some cars came without the hole in early models, but had it added later, too. Also, sadly, I can think of a fair few things that those car designers/manufactuers do that are not optimal, due to an error or due to cost issues.

I'm sure you've come across the odd feature here and there where the original design of a car could be improved on.

chimpboy wrote:I am neutral on the jingle pin but in favour of the hole.

anyone lookin for a sig?

chimpboy wrote:I'm sure you've come across the odd feature here and there where the original design of a car could be improved on.

"the odd feature"

At times I wonder what drugs some 'designers' are on

But often these weird bits are designed to cover all types of uses / drivers / conditions, sadly a generic piece is often a cost saving move more than the placement of a perfect part for that specific application.

Its generally when we modify things that the generic part becomes obsolete or does not work with the improvements we choose to make.
Financial condition's often see the fitting of non genuine parts that are made to imitate the original fitted units, & lets face it, not many of us could or would justify the fitting of a $100 thermostat when a $20 job from supacheap looks the part and fits not only the motor but our wallets.....

[quote="-Scott-"]I'd be looking for a different thermostat. 76.5 is low for a thermostat, 82 degrees is what I'm used to.

Before you fark around with anything else, find an 82 degree thermostat and try that.
[quote]

went and got myself an aftermarket one repco same price as genuine ones it was an 82 degree one or standard not high flow and problem solved sits just below half and goes to half when fanging up hills.

good advice

went and got myself an aftermarket one repco same price as genuine ones it was an 82 degree one or standard not high flow and problem solved sits just below half and goes to half when fanging up hills.

good advice scotty

V8Patrol wrote:

-Scott- wrote:FWIW, I dislike the dingle-dangle bypass do-hickey in modern "aftermarket" thermostats - I block them, and find the engine comes up to temperature faster. But not everybody agrees with me on this topic.

Think of it this way .........

Why would an automotive engineer include it into the design, why would they spend thousands of hours in testing & thousands of dollars in R&D for you to know better and block it off ????

Same thing applies to those that drill a hole..... do you think the designer / manafacturer couldnt be bothered adding the hole

sometimes its done by manufacturers after release as problems dont always get picked up. I drilled a lot of holes in au falcon thermostats when i worked for ford, sometimes the auto engineer and his computer get it wrong

I'm sorry, I must have missed something here.

The circuit flow pressure is not much, 36" of water at best. That pressure though a 1/8" hole will move how much water? Esp if it has a dangly doohicky in it.
Now your motor is dumping at least 5KW and prob closer to 10KW of heat into the cooling circuit. (A std 10A powerpoint is only 2.4KW).
I can't see that trickle of water having any noticeable effect whatsoever.

It's there for air. The motor (my 1HZ, and most others) already has a sperate circuit for circualting water on warmup. I don;t know where the circuit goes, but it's in the pretty cooling circuit picture in the book.

Paul

David_S wrote:

V8Patrol wrote: Why would an automotive engineer include it into the design, why would they spend thousands of hours in testing & thousands of dollars in R&D for you to know better and block it off ????

I was wondering the same thing!

Note that I specified aftermarket thermostats. If a genuine thermostat has one, leave it there - I guess it's there for a reason.

However, I drive old cars, which came from the manufacturer without one, and never had cooling problems without one.

These days, when I try to buy a thermostat, everybody stocks the same generic brand with the dingle-dangle dohickey. What does that have to do with the automotive engineer who spent thousands of hours testing my engine? Did they call him up and ask his advice on whether they should put it into the thermostat they sell as a replacement for my vehicle? Bullshit they did. Modern vehicles (apparently) need it, so every thermostat they make gets it - and those of us driving old vehicles are expected to be grateful they still actually list an application.

If I leave the dingle-dangle dohickey in place I notice the engine takes longer to warm up, and spends a lot of time running lower on the gauge. I don't like that.

So I block the hole, I like the way the temperature gauge sits, and I don't have overheating problems. And I'll re-iterate, for those who missed it. This is in a vehicle designed to run without the hole, or the dingle-dangle. If your vehicle is running cool, and it didn't come from the factory with a hole or a dingle-dangle, ask yourself if you really need it.

YMMV.

Scott

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:I'm sorry, I must have missed something here.

The circuit flow pressure is not much, 36" of water at best. That pressure though a 1/8" hole will move how much water? Esp if it has a dangly doohicky in it.
Now your motor is dumping at least 5KW and prob closer to 10KW of heat into the cooling circuit. (A std 10A powerpoint is only 2.4KW).
I can't see that trickle of water having any noticeable effect whatsoever.

Paul, you're a smart bloke, you understand the physics associated with the dingle-dangle, so consider this.

If the small hole makes an inconsequential difference to the flow, and therefore the performance of the thermostat, why do they go to the effort (and expense) to insert the dingle dangle in an attempt to restrict the flow through the hole?

so by removing the entire guts of the thermostat..... i drilled the hole to big?

and yes i am joking about doing this to my 4wd...

maybe not joking when it came to my mini

-Scott- wrote:And I'll re-iterate, for those who missed it. This is in a vehicle designed to run without the hole, or the dingle-dangle. If your vehicle is running cool, and it didn't come from the factory with a hole or a dingle-dangle, ask yourself if you really need it.

I'm sorry but that just sounds funny.