Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Met this fella the other day that had just bought a 98 jack
from an ex holden service manager.
The holden man did something with the fuse to make the power
windows controlable without the key in the ignition.
The new owner wasn't sure but thought it had something to do with
changing the angle of the fuse!?!?

Anybody know of a mod like this to get the windows and possibly the s/roof
in a jack to operate without the key by muking around with the fuse?

very interested

cheers
wolf

dont think i would want them useable without the key full time, maybe for 2 minutes after the key is taken out would be good.. for those time u forget to wind up when u pull into a car park and switch off..

parents vx commodore has 1 up or 1 down after the key is taken out, just good for times like above.. id say it will come witht he installation of some sort of reley.. maybe check out jaycar.. or if yr real keen, just put a patch in yr fuse box from the windows fuse across to another fuse that is pemanent power.. that would be the cheap and nasty way..

slayer,

mate I think you got it.
The bit about ...
"patch in yr fuse box from the windows fuse across to another fuse that is pemanent power"
I think this is what he must have done.

might go and ask an auto elec what they think and how much



cheers
wolf

Don't do it, your windows must switch off with the key (ADR's say so) ules it is controlled by the body control module (like the VX).

mkpatrol wrote:Don't do it, your windows must switch off with the key (ADR's say so) ules it is controlled by the body control module (like the VX).

When was the last time the ADR did spot checks on window fucntions?

You might want to check that you're just permanently powering the windows by bridging the fuse- other things may be hanging off this fuse too. Also your battery might start going flat if there is a constant drain from doing so.

thanks fellas,

The idea is good, cause when ever we arrive to park anywhere,
well it's like coming in for approach in a 747. Almost need a checklist!
To be able to pull up and have the option of closing everything
without having to switch the ignition to on would be nice.


cheers
wolf

If it's a diesel, fit a turbo timer. The one i've just fitted to my Jack keeps the ignition circuit alive which feeds the power window circuit so you still have a minute to wind up the windows with the key out.

petrol!

dogart wrote:petrol!

Bugger!!!!!

missus has vs commodore, it also also you to winds up/down for short time after turn ignition off. could probably wire in timer circuit to allow you to power the windows. or manual switch to feed power to correct fuse? bit dodgy maybe

ToNkA wrote:

mkpatrol wrote:Don't do it, your windows must switch off with the key (ADR's say so) ules it is controlled by the body control module (like the VX).

When was the last time the ADR did spot checks on window fucntions?

When a vehicle is modified and is going for its first check, the engineer should check it as part of his inspection process. some of you people just like arguing for the sake of it. I have tried to help you out but it seems futile. You can all work it out yourselves from here on.

If it's done via a timer then it would be no different to having a body control module do it. besides who's going to know what Jackaroos had standard from the factory???

Any vehicle that has a turbo timer fitted would not pass ADR's either.......

This is my point, arguing for the sake of arguing.

Turbo timers do not affect ADR's. When you know what you are talking then you can argue. Obviously by your comment you don't know. I know I am going to cop a bit of lack over this but i am sick of people winging because they get a hard time with their vehicles but none of want to listen.

Don't whinge next time because someone has actually tried to help!

Turbo timers are only illegal if the vehicle is unattended while they are operating. So no they do not affect ADRs or roadworthy regs.... Well not in Vic anyway!!!!

mkpatrol wrote:This is my point, arguing for the sake of arguing.

Turbo timers do not affect ADR's. When you know what you are talking then you can argue. Obviously by your comment you don't know. I know I am going to cop a bit of lack over this but i am sick of people winging because they get a hard time with their vehicles but none of want to listen.

Don't whinge next time because someone has actually tried to help!

Take some chill pills. You seem to be the only one whinging!

mkpatrol wrote:This is my point, arguing for the sake of arguing.

Turbo timers do not affect ADR's. When you know what you are talking then you can argue. Obviously by your comment you don't know. I know I am going to cop a bit of lack over this but i am sick of people winging because they get a hard time with their vehicles but none of want to listen.

Don't whinge next time because someone has actually tried to help!

I just found information indicating that ADR 82/00 states "the only time a cars engine can be running is with the ignition key inserted into the ignition and turned to ON position"

murcod wrote:

mkpatrol wrote:This is my point, arguing for the sake of arguing.

Turbo timers do not affect ADR's. When you know what you are talking then you can argue. Obviously by your comment you don't know. I know I am going to cop a bit of lack over this but i am sick of people winging because they get a hard time with their vehicles but none of want to listen.

Don't whinge next time because someone has actually tried to help!

Take some chill pills. You seem to be the only one whinging!

Mkpatrol is just giving good tech with excellent backup knowledge. Mkpatrol, keep posting as yours and everybody's positive input on tech on this site will only make it better in the long run for everybody.

murcod wrote:

mkpatrol wrote:This is my point, arguing for the sake of arguing.

Turbo timers do not affect ADR's. When you know what you are talking then you can argue. Obviously by your comment you don't know. I know I am going to cop a bit of lack over this but i am sick of people winging because they get a hard time with their vehicles but none of want to listen.

Don't whinge next time because someone has actually tried to help!

I just found information indicating that ADR 82/00 states "the only time a cars engine can be running is with the ignition key inserted into the ignition and turned to ON position"

Not sure where the part is you were referring to is in the ADR. Can you quote a clause to confirm? I'm not 100% sure on the legality of turbo timers...

This ADR 82/00 only applies to MA, MB & MC category vehicles manufactured after July 2001. Other vehicle don't have to worry about it.

I don't have a copy of the ADR's and they don't appear to be available on line. That info I put up was posted on another forum by a guy who runs an Aussie alarm company- so I figured he should know what he's talking about.

Can you confirm the electric window ruling at all? I find it hard to believe the ADR's say they can't be operated without the ignition "ON", but so many vehicles straight from the factory can do just that!?!

ADR 42/03 (EXTRACT)

20 WINDOWS AND VENTILATION
20.1 General Requirements
At least half the number of windows must be capable of being opened or the vehicle must be provided with an alternative method of ventilation.
20.2 Ventilation
20.2.1 Omnibuses and N-group vehicles must be provided with a means of ventilation other than by means of windows and door openings.
20.2.2 Except in the case of omnibuses equipped with flow-through ventilation or refrigerated air-conditioning, the provision of an inlet air vent and at least two rotary vents or a hatch in the roof towards the rear of the passenger compartment as a means of ventilation is deemed to meet the provisions of this clause.
20.3 Power Operated Window Systems
20.3.1 Power operated window systems (for vehicles of category passenger car (MA); forward-control passenger vehicle (MB); and off-road passenger vehicle (MC) only)
20.3.1.1 “Power Operated Windows” are windows which are opened and closed by electric, hydraulic or pneumatic means.
20.3.2 Control of Operating Mechanism
20.3.2.1 Operation of power operated window systems must only be possible when the key that controls activation of the vehicle’s engine is in the “ON”, “START” or “ACCESSORY” position.
20.3.2.1.1 Exceptions are:
20.3.2.1.1.1 When the ignition switch has been actuated from “ON” to “OFF” position and/or the key has been removed and no front doors on the vehicle have been opened; or
20.3.2.1.1.2 When the key to lock the driver’s door is in the door lock; or
20.3.2.1.1.3 Upon activation by a key locking system on the exterior of the vehicle; or
20.3.2.1.1.4 When the ignition key has been removed the power operated window system may:
20.3.2.1.1.4.1 remain operational for not more than 45 seconds; and
20.3.2.1.1.4.2 if the driver’s window is operated within the 45 seconds period, the windows can remain operational for an additional period of not more than 45 seconds, after activation of the driver’s window switch; and
20.3.2.1.1.4.3 if the driver’s door is opened within the 45 seconds period, the power operated window system can remain operational for an additional period of not more than 45 seconds, after the opening of the driver’s door.
20.3.2.1.1.5 Remote closing is allowable through continuous operation of a remote actuation device provided that the remote actuation device must be incapable of closing the power window from a distance of more than 11 m from the vehicle.
20.3.2.2 For operation of rear window switches which are not situated in close proximity of the driver, the system must be designed to enable the driver to:
20.3.2.2.1 turn off the switch(es) of the closing mechanism(s) of the rear window(s); and
20.3.2.2.2 initiate opening of the rear window(s).
20.3.2.3 Requirement of clause 20.3.2.2.2 assumes that the rear window switch(es) which are situated out of the driver’s reach, will not be operated.
20.3.2.4 Only momentary type switches or valves must be used for operating mechanisms to close power operated windows except for the driver’s door window.
20.3.2.5 The requirements of clause 20.3.2.1 and clause 20.3.2.4 are not applicable if:
20.3.2.5.1 the closing movement of a power window starts at an opening not exceeding 4 mm, or
20.3.2.5.2 the closing of a power window of a vehicle’s door without upper door frame closes from an opening not exceeding 12 mm whenever the pertinent door is closed.
20.3.2.6 Notwithstanding clauses 20.3.2.1 and 20.3.2.4, a power operated window system may close if it is capable of the following requirements:
20.3.2.6.1 while closing, the window reverses direction before exerting a pinch force of 100N or more within the range of 200 mm to 4 mm beneath the top edge of the power window frame.
20.3.2.6.2 upon such reversal, the window must open to one of the following positions:
A position that permits a cylindrical rod 200 mm in diameter to be placed through the opening at the top edge of the window.
A position that is at least as open as the position at the time closing was initiated.
A position at least 50 mm more open than the position at the time reversing was initiated.
20.3.2.6.3 To check these devices, a measuring instrument/test rod is placed through the window ‘Opening’ from the inside of the vehicle such that the cylindrical surface of the rod contacts the structure which forms the boundary of the window . The force/deflection ratio of the measuring instrument/test rod must be at least 10 N/mm. Placements of the test rods are illustrated in Figure 6.
20.3.2.6.4 The technical requirements of FMVSS 118-FR VOL36 No. 232-02.12.1971- Power Operated Window System; as amended by FMVSS 118-FR VOL58 No. 60-31.03.1998 are deemed to be equivalent to the technical requirements of clause 20.3 of this national standard.

Thanks Auto-Eng .

From reading that, unless I missed something, a timer operating for up to 45secs after the ignition is switched off, and allowing the power windows to operate, would not contravene ADR's.

Problem solved.

What have I created!?

No serious, well done everyone and especially to
auto_eng for his efforts.
I shall print out and keep in the glovebox!

I'm in no hurry to get this done but will look into
it further. Will post update.

cheers
wolf