Outer Limits 4x4 Board

yep ive got one on my 97 1.6 efi vitara and it made no real difference....?? i mean i may not have installed it properly but i followed the instructions and i couldnt really feel a difference..

you can have mine for $10 if you really want it

You'll only feel the added performance on tuesdays and only if you fit a magnet to the fuel line and two hiclones.

They're not worth the money.

Steve.

haha as i found out

As steve was comically pointing out these things (as well as hyclones, fuel treatment modules etc) are just gimmicks designed to catch out poor suckers with more money than knowledge about cars.

Its a 10 cent resistor in some fancy packaging, don't bother.

Was silly enough to try a Hiclone in my dad's VQ Caprice (5.0L v8) some years ago on a trip to Perth. Had the Hiclone in from Adelaide to Eucla, then drove without it from Eucla to Perth. Fuel economy was about 1.5L/100k's worse with the Hiclone!

As you can imagine, it was left out on the trip home and returned rapidly for a full refund....

Interesting - the gf's triton magically "lost" it's hiclone during one service, and got noticably worse fuel economy.

Don't want to re-start the hi-clone war again - sense tells me that more air > nice swirly-wirly air with a restriction, but it seems to work on some cars. Weird.

Tell me about it, the V6 actually drops in power output between about 2700 and 3000 revs ,change up earlier rather than latter I guess. I doubt there is a performance chip available that will work with dyno tuning or zuki would fit it at the factory.

The hyclone has been known to work onm some cars, especially deisels that don't mind a little restriction. That said there is a bloody money back garuntee that hardly anyone takes them up on and that's how they are still in business.

Grizzly, just get a mechanic to advance the timing on your engine and run 98 octane fuel. On my XL-7 (2.7l V6) the spark/ ignition timing pick up is on the end of the LHS camshaft (firewall end) and is adjustable like an old fashioned distributor. I'd imagine you might have a similar pick up?

Of course you need to be careful of detonation etc, but that's basically all a chip will do. The chip is just able to control the advance at certain revs and loads rather than a blanket advance like the pick up will give.

I'd be very carefull adjusting the cam pickups on distributorless engines.

The cam sensor on most engines is only used to determine which phase of the four stroke cycle the engine is performing, the crank pickup provides the baseline reference pulses.

And...... the pickups don't control the ignition timing they merely provide baseline reference pulses to the ECU which takes into account a myriad of other things - especially the knock sensors - before determining the ignition timing, particularly under full load.

If the engine is octane limited then simply by going to 98 will allow the ECU to add more advance and therefore produce more power. Octane isn't always the limit however, so some engines will run better with it others wont.

Unfortunately the "suck it and see" mechanism is really the only way to find out.

all it is that the resistor does is tell the ecu there is more air going in, so it adds more fuel. it will use more fuel, but can give more power. i got a mate who uses one on his VN 5L he rekons it works killa! but thats on a completley different engine.

Well they are usually connected to the Intake Air Temperature sensor - to fool the engine into thinking that the air is more dense ( colder ) than it actually is thus richening up the mixture ( opposite is also possible ).

With engines that run closed loop their effect is only transient so at constant load there will be no power difference but there MAY be small differences under transient conditions if the engine has modifications that are providing minor improvements in airflow that allow the extra fuel to be burnt or was slightly lean under transient conditions from the factory.

The changes are well under what is detectable by "seat of thew pants" testing

Some I have seen use a variable resistor which provides an ability to vary the mixture slightly - but if you don't have a mixture meter and dyno then its still very difficult to tell the difference.

My gripe with them is that they are overhyped and overpriced. Small gains can be made and are possibly worth doing for the cost of a 5c resistor or $1 variable resistor but more than that no way......

Those resistors can also be dangerous- on hot days the engine will most likely be running more advance than it should.

A friend let someone install one on his RenaultSport Clio and it showed up when a data logger was connected because his inlet temp never varied from 25 degree C. I know the RSC inlet temps can get up to 80 degrees on hot days so he's running a huge risk for negligible gains (if any?) I imagine his engine would be running more advance than it should in hot conditions which could result in detonation destroying the engine.

crackatinny wrote: i got a mate who uses one on his VN 5L he rekons it works killa!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

GRPABT1 wrote:

crackatinny wrote: i got a mate who uses one on his VN 5L he rekons it works killa!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

hey, im only going by what he told me. but danm that car is fast

my brother makes these for motoguzzis/ ducati's as a direct plug in no wiring mods.
http://jefferies-au.org/MyECU/index.htm
Going to get him to do one for my Vitara over the next 6 months.

If anyones interested they should cost $500 fully programable and straight plug in ( pending plug type and availability of plug).

jaffazoom wrote:If anyones interested they should cost $500 fully programable and straight plug in ( pending plug type and availability of plug).

If your going to replace the whole ECU just go for a MegaSquirt - your not going to get better value for money anywhere and they have been built and used by the thousands. Support firmware and software is freely available, with loads of features.

And lets not forget that tuning is where its all about - a programmable ECU is absolutely no use if you can't / don't know how to tune it - which is not a job for beginners.

crackatinny wrote:

GRPABT1 wrote:

crackatinny wrote: i got a mate who uses one on his VN 5L he rekons it works killa!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

hey, im only going by what he told me. but danm that car is fast

It was probably fast before the rip off chip. Dude I am into the commodore scene and own a work V8 VN myself and his ebay chip did SFA except for lighten his wallet.

GRPABT1 wrote:

crackatinny wrote:
hey, im only going by what he told me. but danm that car is fast

It was probably fast before the rip off chip. Dude I am into the commodore scene and own a work V8 VN myself and his ebay chip did SFA except for lighten his wallet.

x2. A real tune on a dyno (short of finding a genuine HSV tune) costs a lot more than $20, it also gets results. My V6 is mildly amusing to drive, and the engine's standard - the V8's have up to 65kW more, and more torque, too. They should be pretty quick, considering kerb weight is sub-1400kg.

mightymouse.

on changing ecus.

is there much gain in changing ecu to prgrammable (ie EM3 Injec) on a relatively std motor, cept extractors.

cheers

Sorry to butt in ahead of MM:

I'd say no Nicbeer. The dyno time in getting good drivability will be crippling, regardless of the cost of the ECU.

IN an offroad motor, drivability is far more important that outright power so unless your engine has radically changed breathing, i'd say no.

Steve.

leave your stock ecu in there nic ,

power tuning the easy part
making reliability ,good torque & drivability is what you ask for with a tune
the outright power is not as important

if we ever get time i would like to look at ecu reprograming for suzuki's

Drew wrote:if we ever get time i would like to look at ecu reprograming for suzuki's

Is there anyone who specialises in doing them in Australia?