Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I posted a thread about a month ago with similar problems and need a little extra advice.

I just got knocked back at rego inspection time due to a very minor leak in my front left knuckle. the leak is comming out through the felt dust cover on the ball that the hub pivots around.

is this oil from the diff and thus i need to do inner seals... or do i just need to do a knuckle kit?

Got quoted $500 to get it done, but i think they were just doing the knuckles (both) not the inner seals (350 for just the leakig side).

Sorry its such a similar q to last time, but it has slightly different symptoms and is from a different truck. so i want to be clear in my mind before i dive in or spend the money.

Im not so much after a how to guide as whats the issue advice?

cheers

Basically for you to have a leak on the swivel hub seals (felt seal) you have 2 problems...

1) The inner axle seal is worn/damaged which has caused diff oil to leak
2) The swivel hub seal is damaged/worn.

Because the oil has leaked into the swivel hub and the swivel hub seal is damaged it allows the diff oil to leak out.

Now to me $350 for one side is a bit steep, because it is piss easy to fix and all the seals/ diff oil/ grease... would only cost around $80-100.. and no more than 1.5-2hrs labour (if the mechanic is any good IMOP)

Get a few quotes or buy a repair manual, and save $200 +

My 2c

Brad

Better of bargaining with cartons to a mate that knows what there doing.

that seems bloody expensive to me. i got mine done 6mths ago and it didnt cost me hat much not sure exactly wat it was. next time ill be doing it myself now that i have an idea of how to do it.

The seal itself is piss easy to replace. If its been done before and leaking continues, you probably need to rebuild the swivel housings (king pin bearings etc). This includes setting the swivel housing height (to ensure the axle is central to the seal) which can be a pain in the arse (read: impossible) without the right tools (a custom made tool or a toyota SST is required)

I HEART BRACKETS

Yeah thats what i thought (read hoped was wrong). can get a kit including all seals and bearings for hub and inner seals for $100. think I will get down and dirty... both mudy and greasy as it wont stop raining and havent built the shed yet

anyone in penrith/lower blue mountains want some beer?????

thehanko wrote:Yeah thats what i thought (read hoped was wrong). can get a kit including all seals and bearings for hub and inner seals for $100. think I will get down and dirty... both mudy and greasy as it wont stop raining and havent built the shed yet

anyone in penrith/lower blue mountains want some beer?????

hi mate

empty your diff of all the oil, empty your knuckles as well, clean it all up, get it passed rego, and then fix it in your time

Jes

thehanko wrote:Yeah thats what i thought (read hoped was wrong). can get a kit including all seals and bearings for hub and inner seals for $100. think I will get down and dirty... both mudy and greasy as it wont stop raining and havent built the shed yet

anyone in penrith/lower blue mountains want some beer?????

$100 sounds ok. Kit will probably include everything except for wheel bearings - may as well replace them whilst you're at it.

If you can, get a hold of a box wrench for hub nuts (i THINK it's 54mm), a torque wrench, a spring scale and a genuine Toyota workshop manual. This will eliminate some of the guess work.

Had thought of just emptying and cleaning it all up, but i made the mistake of taking it to a place i didnt want to go to as they are notorious for knocking back cars for various things which they quote up for you - smart business but a bit annoying. They once told me the tyres on my falcon were completely bald yet when i measured them there was still 3mm of legal tread left ie 5mm all up. I dont think they will let it slide.

I might get away with a clean up of the power steering box and tell them it was rebuilt but the dirty felt seal will be a give away on the hub.

Kinda keen to get into it and do it, just gotta pick up a 54mm socket and borrow a torque wrench.

makes you wish you live in any other state so you dont have the time pressues of rego inspections every year, but then again we drive better cars as a result so...

the offer of beer is still open... anyone... ill even make it imported

get a can of degreaser and give it a good degrease and take it to your mechanic it should get passed as long as it clean

Another thing that could cause it to leak is the bronze bush it's where the cv runs on inside the spindle if it's worn it'll allow the axle to move around to much letting oil bypass the seal

It's worth fixing rather than patching up. The oil tends to wash the grease out of the CV - which is all good until the oil stops feeding into the CV.

Marlins heavy duty inner axle seals work a treat

bulldogy wrote:Marlins heavy duty inner axle seals work a treat

God dammit why didn't someone tell me about them a week ago

dogbreath_48 wrote:

bulldogy wrote:Marlins heavy duty inner axle seals work a treat

God dammit why didn't someone tell me about them a week ago

I dunno

Just purchased mine through loctup4x4.com They have a whole bunch of gear on there worth checking out.

dont pay to get it done!!!

thats my motto anyway, honestly, it does not require much in the way of tools, only a hub socket, and a few spanners.
you will learn how the front end works too, in case you break a CV and lose steering in the middle of no where, you will know what to do.

I have never heard of the shim, axle allignment thing... the shims are on the outside of the swivel housing under the kingpins, removing or adding them sets the tension on the kingpin bearings, it doesn't move the stub up and down, as they should always be equal top and bottom.

install all the shims that come in the kit, and it should set the brand new kingpin bearings to the correct tension, as the bearing wears doen, the shims can be removed to adjust it.


to answer your original question, you can just remove the back foam and rubber seals, locking hub and outer axle circlip, crack one of the kingpins and remove it (leave the bottom one) and remove the swivel hub, stub axle, brakes and outer hub as one piece, this is the fastest way to do a broken CV and in your case, inner axle seal, then just re grease the CV from the inside

joel HJ60 wrote:Just purchased mine through loctup4x4.com They have a whole bunch of gear on there worth checking out.

If only dogbreath_48 had seen this a week earlier

Stoive wrote:.
the shims are on the outside of the swivel housing under the kingpins, removing or adding them sets the tension on the kingpin bearings, it doesn't move the stub up and down, as they should always be equal top and bottom.

install all the shims that come in the kit, and it should set the brand new kingpin bearings to the correct tension, as the bearing wears doen, the shims can be removed to adjust it

Check out a real workshop manual. Shims should be used to set housing height (as well as the preload). New bearings should mean new shims (the right ones, not just the two thick ones that come with a kit - toyota sells a range from ~.1mm-1mm IIRC) if you want to do it properly. Having said this, most don't do it and get away with it.

Sic Lux wrote:

joel HJ60 wrote:Just purchased mine through loctup4x4.com They have a whole bunch of gear on there worth checking out.

If only dogbreath_48 had seen this a week earlier

Would have been good to know before going to rebuild the front housing, including the longs and gears i brought through locktup Just didn't see the seal

-Stu

dogbreath_48 wrote:

Stoive wrote:.
the shims are on the outside of the swivel housing under the kingpins, removing or adding them sets the tension on the kingpin bearings, it doesn't move the stub up and down, as they should always be equal top and bottom.

install all the shims that come in the kit, and it should set the brand new kingpin bearings to the correct tension, as the bearing wears doen, the shims can be removed to adjust it

Check out a real workshop manual. Shims should be used to set housing height (as well as the preload). New bearings should mean new shims (the right ones, not just the two thick ones that come with a kit - toyota sells a range from ~.1mm-1mm IIRC) if you want to do it properly. Having said this, most don't do it and get away with it.

Sic Lux wrote:

joel HJ60 wrote:Just purchased mine through loctup4x4.com They have a whole bunch of gear on there worth checking out.

If only dogbreath_48 had seen this a week earlier

Would have been good to know before going to rebuild the front housing, including the longs and gears i brought through locktup Just didn't see the seal

-Stu

To set the king pin preload, could you not disconnect the steer arm from the tie rod, and with the fish scale set it to between 3-6kg(i think it was) that the manual stats?

Just finished the rebuild.

wasnt a very hard job in the end as long as you were not in a rush, I did it on my own with the help of a step by step from this forum. the first side took me 6 hours inc very thoughrough cleaning and repraying some parts before they went back together, i was very slow and never worried about how long it took. The second side took me 2 hours.

Anyone thinking of paying a mechanic - give it a go your self it was a good day, take your time.

Cost me $90 in parts, $10 grease, $21 for a hub nut socket.

I also chose to replace the wheel bearings while i was there which cost $45 per side.

4 rolls of kitchen roll. $4.

so saved my self about $300 plus got the bearings done on top of that saving.

The only bits i had trouble with was removing the seals, they are very very tight. I didnt have a socket big enough to press the new seals in so i found a length of pipe to use on the inner axel seal, the bigger seal behond the outter wheel bearing I used the old bearing seat so i could tap it in.

removing the seats that the bearing run on was a nervous moment, as i was not sure i would get the new ones back in without a press, but it was no prpblem at all, i just used the old seat to stop me damaging the new one and spread the impact of the hammer.

Dont go to a tool shop for the hub nut socket. i was quoted up to $180 for the part, in the end it cost 21 bucks.

Goodtimes.

[quote="dogbreath_48"][quote="bulldogy"]Marlins heavy duty inner axle seals work a treat :armsup:[/quote]

God dammit why didn't someone tell me about them a week ago :bad-words:[/quote]


do they supply these for LN106 94 solid front 4x4 hilux???

tommyquik wrote:

dogbreath_48 wrote:

bulldogy wrote:Marlins heavy duty inner axle seals work a treat

God dammit why didn't someone tell me about them a week ago

do they supply these for LN106 94 solid front 4x4 hilux???

http://www.locktup4x4.com.au/product.aspx?id=318

thehanko wrote:removing the seats that the bearing run on was a nervous moment, as i was not sure i would get the new ones back in without a press, but it was no prpblem at all, i just used the old seat to stop me damaging the new one and spread the impact of the hammer.

You can hit it directly with a hammer, you won't damage it unless you are really trying.

Like i always say to customers, its a fairly easy job just time consuming. Only an idiot mechanic wouldn't charge accordingly for the time it takes.

To do the job properly the height of the swivel housing & stub axle must be set up properly. If its not. The axle will run on one part of the seal & cause it to leak. Most nissan blokes bag out toyotas cos they have a better set up than toyotas. Its not the case. Alot of the time they cant be set properly due to slightly bent axle housings.
If this measurment is set correctly they wont give problems for a long time. Toyota have a SST to do this & I have managed to get one. So when getting quote ask the mechanic if they have the correct tooling to do the job properly. It also takes an extra hour or so to do it if you dont have to adjust them.

just thought i would update, 40,000k's 7 months and some wheeling and no leaks yet .

seeing as some one dug up one of my first posts.

onto other projects now, bare metal respray on my rusty tray which gets re bolted on tomorrow then the ifs rears go under the back for some more flex.

then fit the new 33 muddies sitting in the back yard. oh and the winch. then the new turbo if it ever arrives. god the list is getting long.

then convince my buddies to get off ther arse and go driving. the hard part im afraid