Outer Limits 4x4 Board

http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/html/lokka.htm

How do they compare to other types of lockers?

Thanks

front or rear??
what sort of car is it going in??

Thinking about the front on a GU patrol, thanks.

They are the same type of design as the Richmond lockrite but is made in china.

I used to run one in the front when it was IFS and never missed a beat.
Didn't destroy another C&P after getting it although at Ormeau I did break a short side axel end of CV inside the AISIN FWH which stuffed the hub but thats it.

You will need to adjust your driving style a little, but other wise IMO they are great.

what are they worth?

They are $500 from memory for the front of a GQ.

pretty cheap compared to 1250 for arb or tjm!?! and they said easy enough to fit your self.

when you say you need to modify your driving style when using them, what you you mean?

how different is an auto locker to use?

As it would be going in the front, it will increase your turning circle as both wheels will turn at the same rate under load and the steering will feel heavier because of this in tight situations.
If it's setup correctly, to get it to unlock (release and click over 1 notch) just dab the brakes or quickly off and on the gas to take the load off it and will release then lock up again allowing a tighter turn.

The benefits far outweigh the negatives for the price (both auto and selectable lockers have their pros &cons) and it dosen't take long to get the hang of + I didn't need to do it a lot.
Would also be heaps easier to fit one to a solid axel than IFS too.

Occasionally i could turn off the rear (ARB) and do sorta front digs to move the front accross, was fun

so the auto locker comes on automatically at loss of traction? where as an air locker is purely hit of a switch?

I assume youn can also turn an auto locker off completely as well for flat top driving?
THe turning circle issue is the same for both auto and selcetable lockers yeah?

I would have thought something which is auto losking would cost more not less?

Well the auto locker is on all the time, just unlocks momentarilly, so spose it's really an Auto Unlocker.

For normal flat top driving just unlock the FWH's and is same as before.
BTW if you have full time 4WD I don't think you can use one of these without a part time 4WD kit installed, but not 100% sure.

As for price there is not as much to them so I doubt people would pay the same money for them.

hmmm, interesting.

so when does it auto unlock? when there is no load? ie engine breaking of acceleration?

I'm not a tech guru but will try to explain ....

When you have load on it either pushing forward or desending it stays locked, and when the load on it is released it's able to unlock if required.

An Auto locker will only allow 1 wheel to travel faster than the other not slower so it lets the wheel traveling the greater distance unlock (when load is released) till it gets to the next notch in the locker.

Maybe have a bit of a read here, might explain it better ....
http://www.richmondgear.com/powertrax/lockright.html

thehanko wrote:so the auto locker comes on automatically at loss of traction? where as an air locker is purely hit of a switch?

I assume youn can also turn an auto locker off completely as well for flat top driving?
THe turning circle issue is the same for both auto and selcetable lockers yeah?

I would have thought something which is auto losking would cost more not less?

Autolocker in theory works by allowing one wheel to turn faster than it is being driven by the transfer case.

It goes like this - to turn properly, the inside wheel needs to go slower than the outside wheel, otherwise they are fighting to go straight.

A conventional diff allows this difference in speed (that's why it's called a differential) but it also allows the wheel with the most traction to lose power.

A diff lock forces both wheels to travel at the same speed, which makes turning a mess. So with an air locker, you switch it off to do your turn (or just live with the big turning circle and chewing up the track). With a lokka-style locker, a purely mechanical ratchet type of arrangement allows the outside wheel to spin freely as long as it goes FASTER than the diff is driving it. So effectively you get your inside wheel driving you around the corner, and the outside wheel not doing any work unless the inside wheel loses traction .... then the outside wheel starts driving you.

It is an ideal system in theory but it sounds like either:

(a) it doesn't work in practice
(b) some people don't know what their lokka is actually doing and describe it completely the wrong way when they are telling people about it
(c) it often stuffs up if the install isn't 100%

I say this because the complaints people sometimes make about them don't match up to how they are designed to work at all.

had a read and now have a better idea cheers. we newbies must wear thin...

thanks again, was struggling to justify a locker to the local consent authority to spend 1200 + bucks. 500 she might allow.

People with experience: If you push the transfer case into 2wd with the hubs locked will the lokka stay unlocked?

If you unlock 1 hub will the car drive like normal down steep inclines?

he he I know you said people with experience but what the hell, im sure someone will correct me if im wrong.

from what i now understand, the system relys on drive to make it lock, so as long as its in 2wd there cannot be any drive. good idea!

as for running with 1 hub locked in... hmmm would this cause any damage to the rest of the system? cant see how it would but worth a check.

If its ok to run with 3wd so to speak the main issue I can see would be that 1 wheel never has drive and 1 wheel always has drive so the effect would alter depending on which wheels have contact with the ground or good traction at any given time. which might make it a little less predictable. any one else tried this?

dansedgli wrote:People with experience: If you push the transfer case into 2wd with the hubs locked will the lokka stay unlocked?

The locker unlocks when the wheel tries to turn the diff faster than the diff can turn - but only if unlocking the diff is easier than breaking traction. While you're travelling in a straight line the diff will remain locked. Once you try to turn, one of three things will occur:

1. The outside side will unlock and you'll turn as per normal.
2. One wheel will break traction and you'll turn, but probably in an erratic manner.
3. Both wheels will break traction and you won't turn - momentum will carry you wherever Newton's Laws decide.

If you unlock 1 hub will the car drive like normal down steep inclines?

The diff should remain locked, and should behave pretty much as normal - until the locked wheel loses traction (for whatever reason) and you're effectively back in two wheel drive - to the lightly loaded rear end.

in 2wd with the hubs locked they pretty much act like an open front diff.

i wouldn't see any need to unlock one front hub for downhill descents.

it's occasionally setup issues that cause people to "hate them", but more often than not it's people not being able to adapt their driving style to suit. Jerky driving (using the throttle as an on-off switch instead of gradual application of the pedal) shows up their shortcomings.

in tight situations, they are slightly less manouverable than open diffs, but more manouverable than having ARB's locked in. so if you drive places where open diffs will get you through, why bother with lockers? remember, if you unlock the ARB to turn, your just on an open diff.

i put one in the front of the cruiser, and the first time out, i expected to be understeering everywhere. sure the steering was a little less direct when things got slippery, and my turning circle diminished a tad, but not enough to undo the benefits of being able to crawl everywhere. and i can't even directly attribute the larger turning circle to the locker. that trip out was also the first time out on the swampers, with the power steering conversion, the cruiser was 4 inches wider wheel track, and 10 inches longer wheel base.

Smooth automatic operation
Quiet operation
On and offroad steering is uncompromised

those selling points ARE very debatable! [have had them]

Thanks for the input.

Not certain I follow all of the fine print technical details. Sounds like they may have a few small problems. Not sure how they differ from a detroit locker. The detroit locker problems described on page 4 of 24 of:

http://www.locked-drive.com.au/pdf/ct_128312.pdf

sound pretty horrendous. Are they as bad as described? I don't like the sound of increasing the drive shaft backlash. Do the same issues apply for the Lokka?

TIA

I spent today 4wding with one of my mates who has one fitted to his 2.4D dual cab hilux. It seemed to do the trick allright, and hasn't played up over the last 6 years at all.

The only issue he had that a saw from driving behind him was while going around corners at 20-60km/h, if the inside wheel lost enough traction (it had been raining all day), the outside wheel would lock on and make the back of the truck drift big time. Like the other guys said, auto locker/lockrite/lokka all require a different driving style to an open or manual locking diff.

I say that if it has good warranty, and doesn't cause any issues will running gear - go for it. For the amount of use a front locker will get at higher speeds/high grip areas, i wouldn't stress too much about it.

For $500, i'd consider one myself.

Coxy

dalby wrote:Thanks for the input.

Not certain I follow all of the fine print technical details. Sounds like they may have a few small problems. Not sure how they differ from a detroit locker. The detroit locker problems described on page 4 of 24 of:

http://www.locked-drive.com.au/pdf/ct_128312.pdf

sound pretty horrendous. Are they as bad as described? I don't like the sound of increasing the drive shaft backlash. Do the same issues apply for the Lokka?

TIA

which detroit? the link confused me. if it's talking about a "no slip" i'm led to believe they are mechanical LSD's.

detroit did (and probably still do) have a version of this type of locker. in that case, they are exactly the same

the detroit soflocker works on a similar concept, but has ramped cams instead of stepped, clutchpacks on each axle to dampen the lock/unlock, and are a complete centre, not just replacement spider gears. they are much smoother driving, and strengthen anything with a weak centre (i.e. 80 series front diffs).

they can be as bad as described, BUT aren't usually.

Where abouts are you guys buying your lokka/lockrite/megalock/ultralockers from ??

Decided to get one for my GQ, just need a super dooper price now.

Coxy

coxy321 wrote:Where abouts are you guys buying your lokka/lockrite/megalock/ultralockers from ??

Decided to get one for my GQ, just need a super dooper price now.

Coxy

http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/html/lokka.htm $499 (last time i looked any way)

do they make them for hilux as well? anyone thinking group buy?

thehanko wrote:do they make them for hilux as well? anyone thinking group buy?

Yes they do ........

4WD Systems "Lokka" Diff Lock

REAR -
Diff size - 8"
Part # - LR09
suits 2 pinion open diff centre

Part # - LR61
suits 4 pinion open diff centre (not LSD)

FRONT -
Diff size - 7.5"
Part # - LR10
suits all IFS front diffs with 2 pinion open centre.

HTH

What about sourcing it from the US??

http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_info. ... ts_id/2226

I found a few thismorning at "work", but couldn't find them tonight. I'm waiting to hear back from them re freight cost.

Coxy

PS. Not even sure if its a H233 in my car).

Got a reply back. Freight from the US costs more than the actual product...

US$530.55 including freight

Coxy

international freight is a killer, the only way to get it cheaper is to increase the volumes, ie 1 might costs 280 us, 2 might cost 400, 3 might cost 480 etc etc.

but then you might also get stung by customs on the way in. you can do your own customs forms if its less that 1000$ in value, other wise you have to start paying agents to do it and up go the $$$ again.

Custom's clearance charges for a mate's specialised rock sliders for a landrover, coming in from the US, were over $800. Ouch. Ouch.

I have bought some equipment from the US off EBay and USPS was OK for air, but I can't remember what the max permitted weight is. UPS and other couriers are VERY prohibitive.