Outer Limits 4x4 Board

well i finally got around to putting the timing belts on the paj
BUT i dont know why i didnt bother to pull the cover off and have a look before


so now what are my options?
do i bother to remove the head and fix it? how much would a replacement head be worth? and is it worth the time and money?

then i would want to put an auto on it and get some xfer gears to get the j-top ready to be built into a comp rig.

Do you know the head is toast?

WHen it happened to mine I had a pile of bits very similar to yours. The valves were fine and hadn't hit the pistons.

Otherwise....... 1UZ?

not sure of the condition of the head.
my brother in law saw it and said there was a high chance that its stuffed.

what engine was yours? the same? 4d56? or v6?


how hard is it to pull the head off to find out?
im good at pulling things apart but not very good at putting them back together properly

NJV6 wrote:Do you know the head is toast?

WHen it happened to mine I had a pile of bits very similar to yours. The valves were fine and hadn't hit the pistons.

Otherwise....... 1UZ?

I don't know...that kind of damage usually requires the valves to make contact with the pistons. How else are you going to make mince out of metal?

The heads themselves may still be ok but you may need to replace all the valvetrain/rocker gear. Get it checked out by a good mechanic to see where you stand.

clm434 wrote: but you may need to replace all the valvetrain/rocker gear.

definatley,
theres cracks where its bolted too

j-top paj wrote:

clm434 wrote: but you may need to replace all the valvetrain/rocker gear.

definatley,
theres cracks where its bolted too

Well in that case I say good luck to you.

I just hope the v6 heads are cheaper than the 4G54 ones. I nearly cried when I paid for mine.

....and why did I say may have to replace you DEFINATELY HAVE TO

mines a 4d56

j-top paj wrote:mines a 4d56

Oops sorry I should have looked at the photo properly. I could be wrong but I think the diesel heads are a tad cheaper.

4G54 was $530 bare with all my valvetrain swapped into it + $100 for a VRS set.

i was hoping it would be a little bit cheaper than that

I have a number for a cheap head guy in qld just had to buy one for my bravo td will have a look forit.

thanks

Yea mine was a 4D56. I had piccies here but they don't seem to be working.

I took the head off mine. I got a tested replacememnt head for $250 which came with all the bits I needed that had smashed except the camshaft but mine was ok.

I replaced the head on mine for another issue (cracked) but got the valves resurfaced and reused them all ($60) at engine shop.

The 2.5 will typically smash rocker gear rather than damage valves and pistons but in this case I could be wrong. I know it doesn't make sense but thats just what happens.

It was easy enough to pull the head off, all the exhaust and turbo and injector pump can be left in place, just undo all the bolts on the exhaust and lift the head around them.

I had never had a head off before but just followed the Haynes manual.

i was speaking to a mate today and he said i might be lucky if i just replace the rocker gear and then turn the engine by hand. if it doesnt hit anything and turns over a few revolutions then i should be able to turn the key and it should start?


does this sound correct?

Yes. You will need to replace the camshaft bearing journals(?) as thats what the rockers thread into and will probably be cracked and stripped.

There is one camshaft cap that is different that goes at the back (I think) it has a tiny oil feed hole that feeds oil to the rocker gear.

Once turning by hand before you put it all back together a quick compression test through the injector holes would give you a good idea. when taking out injectors make sure you use a long socket to unto the entire injector, not just the first nut as I did and had a quick 'inside of injector' training.....

i had a quick hunt around just now and the only place that had anything wanted $75 each for the rockers and $50 for the caps. the last one is fine but the other 4 (3 in the middle and one at the front) are stuffed.

il try some more places tomorrow to see if i can get any better prices.

im wondering why only 4 of the rockers are broken and not all 8

the first 4 are the ones that are broken. the one closest to the firewall appears to be ok.

is $350 a reasonable price for the 4 rockers and 4 caps?

I would have thought that would be quite dear.

Can't help as to why only 4 of the rockers are broken but are they inlet or exhaust and which cylinders are the broken ones?

Mine never broke rockers, only the caps. It had broken the small balancing shaft timing belt and the cambelt picked it up and jumped teeth. So yours *may* be more serious. But I guess you can't do much until you get new rockers.

I'd hate for you to spend $350 on something that doesn't fix it....

thats what mine did too,
i didnt know about the balance shaft belt and i looked at the top one and thought it was fine so i didnt do anything when i got the paj.

im not sure if its the exhaust or inlet ones that are broken but its all 4 of either one. im not sure how to see what ones they were.

is there any difference between the two?


i hope i can find some cheaper tomorrow

I got my 4D56 rebuilt at Penrith Engine Services, give them a call they might be able to help out. They where able to source a brand new crank for mine pretty cheap

The furtherest forward valve is the exhaust and then every second one but as far as I know the rockers are the same. As you have removed yours I guess you might not remember whcih ones were broken?

NJV6 wrote:The furtherest forward valve is the exhaust and then every second one but as far as I know the rockers are the same. As you have removed yours I guess you might not remember whcih ones were broken?

nah, it was a bit of a mess under there...
i just started picking bits out and swearing

j-top paj wrote:

NJV6 wrote:The furtherest forward valve is the exhaust and then every second one but as far as I know the rockers are the same. As you have removed yours I guess you might not remember whcih ones were broken?

nah, it was a bit of a mess under there...
i just started picking bits out and swearing

Good luck getting ALL the tiny little pieces out of the whole motor, your going to need it.

clm434 wrote:

j-top paj wrote:

NJV6 wrote:The furtherest forward valve is the exhaust and then every second one but as far as I know the rockers are the same. As you have removed yours I guess you might not remember whcih ones were broken?

nah, it was a bit of a mess under there...
i just started picking bits out and swearing

Good luck getting ALL the tiny little pieces out of the whole motor, your going to need it.

any tips on how to do it?


thanks for everyones help so far

magnet on a stick?

isnt it alloy? dont think the magnet will work but il give it a try.

Most engines we've delt with that have had some sort of failure are either too far gone and are replaced or are completely pulled down, cleaned, checked and honed before being rebuilt.

Either option I don't think you'll like, but you could be lucky.

Could go bush mechanic on its b1tch ass. Maybe take the sump off and wash it out with kerosine or something.

NJV6 wrote:The furtherest forward valve is the exhaust and then every second one but as far as I know the rockers are the same. As you have removed yours I guess you might not remember whcih ones were broken?

found out that they are marked "e" and "i"

all the inlet ones on mine are broken, the exhaust ones are fine

Correct me if this is not the case here as i know nothing about the 4d56 head, but most heads have the cam tunnel caps tensioned in the factory then tunnel bored.

Each head has its matched set of cam tunnel caps (Just like main or b\end caps) so getting replacemnt caps off another head will not be ideal (caps might not line up with the tunnel in the head at all). Only way I can see it working is taking the head off, getting replacement caps, getting your machining shop to cut down the mating facing and re-tunnel bore it.

Or just get a full replacement head (the way I would go about it)

t_e_z_a wrote:Correct me if this is not the case here as i know nothing about the 4d56 head, but most heads have the cam tunnel caps tensioned in the factory then tunnel bored.

Each head has its matched set of cam tunnel caps (Just like main or b\end caps) so getting replacemnt caps off another head will not be ideal (caps might not line up with the tunnel in the head at all). Only way I can see it working is taking the head off, getting replacement caps, getting your machining shop to cut down the mating facing and re-tunnel bore it.

Or just get a full replacement head (the way I would go about it)

dont tell me that

j-top paj wrote:

t_e_z_a wrote:Correct me if this is not the case here as i know nothing about the 4d56 head, but most heads have the cam tunnel caps tensioned in the factory then tunnel bored.

Each head has its matched set of cam tunnel caps (Just like main or b\end caps) so getting replacemnt caps off another head will not be ideal (caps might not line up with the tunnel in the head at all). Only way I can see it working is taking the head off, getting replacement caps, getting your machining shop to cut down the mating facing and re-tunnel bore it.

Or just get a full replacement head (the way I would go about it)

dont tell me that

Sorry lol