Outer Limits 4x4 Board

as most people would be aware of the suzukis have a super small battery and as i modify different things like including the stereo, radio, spotties etc im starting to think of removing the small battery and trying a large single one in the back is this as straight forward as it sounds?

cheers

No, it's expensive and complicated. Just modify the existing battery tray and fit an optima in the stock spot. This will be all the battery you need.

however, the biggest battery in the world won't help if you don't have enough alternator. Search EL Falcon alternator upgrade for how to put a 100A alternator in place of the stock 50A one.

Steve.

cheers mate apprecaite the tips

I got a 75ah deep cycle battery that fits into the stock spot after forgetting one to many times to turn the headlights off on cloudy days (and two batteries in 8 months!)

It cost me $65 and had been used on float in a hospital back up for a year (which is better than no charge on a shelf for 12mnths) bought it on ebay.

Just search the common values on ebay it seems to give more results (ie 75ah 70 ah, 60ah etc etc)

On 55w headlights it can go 12hrs of low beam and still crank the car. An alternator upgrade is an idea but i say do the battery first then see if you need it. Most people do there driving during the day so your battery will almost always be full. (unless you more than regulary use a winch!)

(another option is to put a second battery on the other side of the engine bay)

Hi,

As Steve said, an OPTIMA battery and a Falcon Alternator is the way to go. The "Yellow Top" D34 or "Blue Top" D34M is the one I have. They are worth every cent.

Have a look here to see what I did:

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/ft ... asc-16.php

Good luck!

Pez

ive got duel batterys 600 CCA each.

i want to get a bigger alternator but i got a 16v 1.6. does anyone know of a bigger alternator that will fit this engine

Yes it will fit effectively the same as on a 1.3.

I swapped to the falcon alternator on a 660 and it was still pretty much the same job.

Santos - I think you're missing the point a bit. If the total electrical load exceeds the continuous rating of the alternator, no amount of battery is really going to help. Yes, a bigger battery will allow you to leave your headlights on for longer, but only more alternator will give you decent recovery after you have done so.

However, Aaron, be aware of how much load you're introducing. 2X100W driving lamps will add about 17 amps. for most small items like CB's etc - I'd use the fuse rating as a guide to maximum draw (this will give you some up your sleeve)

Even a stereo won't generally require more than 17 amps (4X45W) although if you get into amps etc you can considerably increase that.

Steve.

A piece of interesting trivia for you all:

An Optima D34 will charge from dead flat to 90% capacity in roughly 30 minutes when charged with a 100A alternator...

Pez

Deep cycle batteries are differently constructed to cranking batteries and are NOT designed to deliver high cranking currents - rather not be damaged by "deep" reoccurring discharges.

Cranking and Deep Cycle batteries have quite different uses and are each damaged by incorrect use - like cranking from a deep cycle. There are very good reasons why different battery applications use different battery constructions.

If its your only battery then a cranking style battery ( and Optima have an excellent rep. ) are the way to go. If you have an aux. battery to run accessories ( fridge, lights etc ) then a deep cycle is the go for that.

A dual 12V battery system also requires some form of battery management system.

A 50amp alternator will still 'trickle' charge a higher rated battery. 'Spotties, radio, stereo' are not going to exceed the total load continuously.

A bigger battery can iron out any spikes of load that alternator can not handle. I'm not saying it is the solution for continuous hi-amp draw but most ppl have a stereo that drives 4 speakers or a low power amp.

Having a too strong an alternator also has the effect of overcharging the battery. Taxi drivers often leave there headlights on at all times to extend the servicable life of their battery.

If the car runs as a portable powerstation for fridges, winches and etc upgrade the alternator.
If the car needs to run spotties for 2-4hrs every other week, blare the music to keep the road noise and keep up with the demands of a chatterbox UHF then upgrading the alternator is not REALLY nessecesary.

One of the things i am looking at is ways to reduce the electrical load.
Somethings i am looking at:
55w HID bulbs
1w T5 led Bulbs instead of 3w T5 bulbs in dash
2w T10 led Bulbs instead of 5w T10 in dash
Stop, park, reverse led lights. (Finding a 15amp auto relay instead of 30amp was the hardest bit and it turns out they have it at jaycar)

The main thing is i am trying to get an led bulb design that is as bright as a regular bulb in the standard sierra fittings. The ones i sell at work (Dick smith) are brighter but have a narrow field of light.

Every 12w i save is 1 amp of electrical load saved. It also means that i am not adding weight to the spinning crank

Santos wrote:Having a too strong an alternator also has the effect of overcharging the battery.

You need to learn a bit more about battery charging and particularly regulators if you seriously believe that

However you assertion that lowering electrical load results in more available engine power is absolutely true. Modern regulators are often also hooked up to the engine ECU and are dropped to a lower charging rate under high engine acceleration to give greater available power.

This is obviously done as part of a management strategy - to avoid battery discharge over the longer term.

MightyMouse wrote:

Santos wrote:Having a too strong an alternator also has the effect of overcharging the battery.

You need to learn a bit more about battery charging and particularly regulators if you seriously believe that
.

So it's impossible to overcharge a car lead acid battery in a car?

regulators as is is my understanding help keep a constant voltage at various rpms you can cut the juice at a determined level). Still if you run an alternator continuosly without using the energy (say you had everying but the engine switched off it will eventually kill the battery. Double the output with no load and it will happen quicker.

I'm not saying ppl shouldn't upgrade their alternators i'm saying that simpler solutions should be considered if the current electrical system is up to the task. The original post asked about bigger battery for little things and would larger one help.

No - your confusing something like a three terminal voltage regulator ( electronics style ) with the device called the regulator on an alternator or generator.

An alternators regulator has the ability to "regulate" the output of the alternator to suit the needs of the cars electrical system. In fact it provides a tapering output capability that actually reduces charge rate as the vehicles battery reaches full charge ( sensed by the batteries voltage ).

So the battery and regulator are in a balanced relationship, as the battery discharges its terminal voltage falls and this is sensed by the regulator which increase its output to restore equilibrium until the battery once again reaches its fully charged state.

If you have a look at charge / terminal voltage graphs of a lead acid battery you can clearly see this rise in voltage as full charge is achieved.

Its a case of "regulator" no being the same as "regulator", in some ways they are achieving similar outcomes but .........

Hope this is of interest.

Yes it is, i learned something here

MightyMouse wrote:Deep cycle batteries are differently constructed to cranking batteries and are NOT designed to deliver high cranking currents - rather not be damaged by "deep" reoccurring discharges.

This is true... However, in a zook an Optima deep cycle will/should crank a zook for years and keep coming back for more. I purchased my deep cycle Optima as an excessively high cranking current is not required to start my little zook. In my experience I have not seen an Optima deep cycle in an application like mine fail due to excessive cranking currents. In an application with more frequent and higher cranking currents, then I would 100% agree with you that it is not a good idea... I run high accessory loads so having a good deep cycle is more of a priority for MY application. I have seen many Optima Yellow and Blue (Deep cycle) batteries in Taxi's outlast the taxi itself. I have seen a number of Red tops in a taxi fail as they often do not handle the large accessory loads in a taxi. It's is all to do with matching the battery to the application.

I am not disagreeing with you at all MightyMouse, I am only saying that that the battery choice is totally dependent on the application and should be decided on a case by case basis....

Pez

well i sure hope i dint get anybody shot by asking the question, but it was very helpfully none the less thanks to all of you.
cheers

aaron-suzuki wrote:well i sure hope i dint get anybody shot by asking the question, but it was very helpfully none the less thanks to all of you.
cheers

Welcome to Outers! (It's all good!)

Pez

Yes Pez I understand what your saying and your correct about selective application.

Perhaps I'm talking about more "industrial" deep cycle batteries than you - Optima's are still a car battery and are designed to be multi use - even when designed as deep cycle.

There are true deep cycle batteries used for mobile platforms, UPS's, running fridges, solar installations etc etc that don't work well in cars.

Its unfortunately a bit like the words "heavy duty" sometimes it masks more than it explains

pezooki does about $400 for the battery sound about right i am about to get one aswell its a absorbed glass matt type battery too.

Yep, Optimas are around the $400 mark.

Steve.

MightyMouse - Yep I 100% agree with you. I was specifically talking about the Optima. Generic/eBay/Industrial ones just do not handle the abuse as well as an Optima does...

McGyver - Yes as Steve said, around $400.

Cheers,

Pez

if i was buying a $65 dollar battery a year i might consider the optima, but it's been 18mnths and my battery is still good.

I think anything with over 500cca is a good option if you are going for a budget build

$300+ takes a huge chunk out of suspension, rubber and other little zook add ons.