Outer Limits 4x4 Board

im after any info if anyone has put one of these engines in to there patrol or landcruiser. i just picked up a copy of the "just 4x4s outdoors mag. and it has an add in it advertising a engine swap for the 4bta engine to replace the 2h in a 60 series.

basically im after a conversion for my 2.8 gu which is getting a bit old and will be needing a rebuild in the near future, and am looking at different options. ive thrown e 6.5 chev idea cost to much for old technology and is restricted with the indirect injection. am likening the 4.2 td idea but am looking in to all ideas. if anyone knows much about this engine or conversion any help would be appreciated.

im a apprentice fitter so i will be able to do most the labor my self

What sort of budget do you have, and do you want to stick with a diesel?

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/index.php
Have a look here for cummins info, and stick the 6.5, been there done that, not very exciting

Aren't they a bit gutless for this application?

Should have a read on that site, guys are getting 13sec quarters out of theres and blowing turbo 400's to bits, 10 sec out of the 6bt

6.5 rangie wrote:Should have a read on that site, guys are getting 13sec quarters out of theres and blowing turbo 400's to bits, 10 sec out of the 6bt

I thought we were talking about a 4BT... but okay either way, I am not knocking them I was just asking.

120bhp in std trim very good engine we replaced the 6.5 in our ex ambulance with one and it goes better and uses less juice the engine is very agricultural and needs very good mounts

dodge ram jet

What's a dodge ram jet? Ram jet is the trade name for GM performance parts open loop efi crate motors.

I've looked long and hard at putting a 4BT in a my Gwagen and they look pretty good. I'd have no issue that they'd do the business power wise. They are tall and heavy though. Bear in mind, adapting a overdrive gearbox isn't the easiest as all the options are for North american boxes - NV4500 etc.

I'd probably run one with a T400 and 3.9 diffs with 35's to avoid the expense of an OD gearbox. That combination looked ok, but only with the higher speed governor mod.

Go for it I don't want to be the only person who thinks this is a good idea (like most of my other ideas)

Steve.

The Isuzu 4BD1T is a very similar engine, but with the intake and exhaust on opposite sides and a higher rev range.

The Isuzu's rev to 3600, the cummins to around 2500 stock but to 3200 with a little tinkering.
Both will happily push a fullsize 4wd along at 100km/h at 1800rpm all day.

I think the current best for power from a 4BT is about 450hp, but they're doing a lot of work to get that.

I guess the big choice issue comes down to gearbox between the 4BD1 and the 4BT.

Obviously rover boxes are fairly easy behind the 4BD1, but other boxes and especially autos will be harder. The adapter for 4BD1 to t700 offered in the US looks both expensive and complex to me.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:I guess the big choice issue comes down to gearbox between the 4BD1 and the 4BT.

Obviously rover boxes are fairly easy behind the 4BD1, but other boxes and especially autos will be harder. The adapter for 4BD1 to t700 offered in the US looks both expensive and complex to me.

Steve.

Rover boxes don't have an easy life behind the Isuzu, especially if you wind the fuel up a little. I'm running an Isuzu box in mine.

There are guys in the US who've used the isuzudieselswapper adaptor to a GM pattern, then another adaptor from GM to toyota pattern.
Seems to work for them. But it's getting a little complex.

If goin auto, marks do the T700R adapter to the nissan transfer, I dont know to much about the rest.

I did do a little reserch into the 4.8 isuzu Turbo Deisel (from the NQR if iI remember right) It would of mated to the manuel (TD42, TB series) fairly easily.

Isuzu use the same splines as nissan manuels, I have an nissan/isuzu clutch combo in mu gq ute.

The 4.8 isuzu did have a 4500rpm redline also so same rev range as td42, stock power was 115hp 480Nm from memory.

I'm not sure if any of this was useful but I am interested in the conversion also.

Yeah, the ease of finding GM auto to most transfer adapters readily makes the 4BT/GM auto look appealing plus, automotive 4BT's normally come with T400s already behind them, from frito-lay vans.

Also, auto/turbodiesel combinations are much nicer to drive than manuals.

Steve.

Steve - does this mean the "Big Red Toolbox" might move again ?

Its been awhile.

No, not for a while MM, but I've done the sums on it and the 4BT is very appealing.

Steve.

nastytroll wrote: The 4.8 isuzu did have a 4500rpm redline also so same rev range as td42, stock power was 115hp 480Nm from memory.

More like 2800rpm redline.

ive seen one, and it went alright, look at bangin a TD42 into it instead of the 2.8 easier and cheaper, than the isuzu....

i have been reading alot of info on the 4bt swaps site, and with the new cummins 6.5L engine the 6bt (5.9L) has decreased in value 10 fold, and now wondering how hard it would be to put one into a gq, guessing im gonna have the same problems that adam would, it seems like a very practical swap, and would produce a great deal of torque yet still remain reasonably economical.

They are very, very noisy, very very big and very very heavy. (1000lb) You're also going to want a VERY torque capable gearbox, which is going to have to mate to a transfer. Even the factory dodge autos don't last. you're going to be looking NV5600 or 4L80E + an adaptable transfer. $$$$$$$$$$

I'd love a 6BTA, but think the're not really very practical to be honest.

Steve.

What's a dodge ram jet

Rogers car....

on topic i saw a site where a guy had put a 6bt into a 40 series in the states, definately a big heavy motor, had to beef up the front end and then change where the radiator/fan fitted - it's pretty long and yea like steve said about 1000lb in weight.
Had one at work a while ago powering a mobile vacuum pump, really has that TRUCK idle to it, makes a td42 sound like an rb30!! although it was mounted on a skid (no enclosure)

looked very seriously into putting one in the gu and they arent heaps lobger than a td42, weight isnt a huge issue, nothing the right set of springs and shocks wouldnt fix, the main problems were find a suitable gearbox to run behind it, casue no doubt most people on here would be like me and starting hotting it up and the torque these thing are capable of producing is down right insane!!!!

Even a built 4l80e would be pushing s*&t up hill tho handle it so you would need a fatory dodge box, the there transfer cases runs down the left of the car not right like ours, so custom diff or aftermarket transfer

and then i started thinkng about diffs, as good as gu diffs are im not rally sure the would hande the copious amounts of torque a cummins could thro at them

I signed up on lots of yanky forums, found cheap motors, asked lots of questions and its definatley doable but by crickey your wallet would want to be rather bloddy fat!!!!!!

If any one does tackle it, my advise, get a 1ST gen 12v 5.9 (88-91 ish), mechanical pump motors like our td's, no electrcal crap to worry about or if your not afraid of electrical work a 2nd gen 12v( they run a better pump and you can buy a sigma after market pump-full billet body, mega power potential and huge huge huge dollars) ,

Most guys are pulling the later 24v out and slamming in 12v's in the hunt for the big hp numbers because they reckon there a better motor

Thats my 2c worth

bigpatrol89 wrote:looked very seriously into putting one in the gu and they arent heaps lobger than a td42, weight isnt a huge issue, nothing the right set of springs and shocks wouldnt fix, the main problems were find a suitable gearbox to run behind it, casue no doubt most people on here would be like me and starting hotting it up and the torque these thing are capable of producing is down right insane!!!!

Even a built 4l80e would be pushing s*&t up hill tho handle it so you would need a fatory dodge box, the there transfer cases runs down the left of the car not right like ours, so custom diff or aftermarket transfer

and then i started thinkng about diffs, as good as gu diffs are im not rally sure the would hande the copious amounts of torque a cummins could thro at them

I signed up on lots of yanky forums, found cheap motors, asked lots of questions and its definatley doable but by crickey your wallet would want to be rather bloddy fat!!!!!!

If any one does tackle it, my advise, get a 1ST gen 12v 5.9 (88-91 ish), mechanical pump motors like our td's, no electrcal crap to worry about or if your not afraid of electrical work a 2nd gen 12v( they run a better pump and you can buy a sigma after market pump-full billet body, mega power potential and huge huge huge dollars) ,

Most guys are pulling the later 24v out and slamming in 12v's in the hunt for the big hp numbers because they reckon there a better motor

Thats my 2c worth

Must be another reason the 4BT's are going up in price. You need a serious size rig to throw a 6BT into.

The Isuzu 6BD1 is a more civilised alternative to the cummins 6BT. Commonly found in buses and Isuzu's in this part of the world.

I believe the facctory dodge auto is weaker than a 4L80E. Lots of breakages once 6BT's are tuned.

If you think more weight is just "fixed" by springs and shocks you're not ready for a 6BT conversion. (roughly) doubling the weight of the motor is going to play havoc with balance, braking, weight distribution, front axle housing and shaft strength....

Steve.

about 3 years ago ther was a early 90's 75 series cruiser for sale in Darwin, it was a 6 wheeler [lazy] and it had a 6bd1 [ isuzu] in it.

about 5 years ago when my mate was looking at doing a engine swap [75 series also] he was tossing up between a 6.5 chev diesel and a 6bd1.
he ended up going with the chev [big mistake] only because he trusted the mob doing the chev conversion for him [another big mistake].
next time i speak to him i'll ask who was doing the 6bd1 conversion and see what the deal is.

We got a few M11's kickin around at work if you want to shoe horn in a big deisel, 661 ci 400hp. May require seat mount modifications though

i got spare springs

1000lbs = 446.5kgs

If I'm not mistaken doesn't that put this inline with the TD42 at something like 450kgs?

clm434 wrote:1000lbs = 446.5kgs

If I'm not mistaken doesn't that put this inline with the TD42 at something like 450kgs?

think the cummins is a bit heavier than that but basically thats what i was thinking, i mean were talking a 4.2 against a 5.9, not a 16l c16 cummins!!! they actually are not that much bigger than our motors, ill try an d dig up the specs i got, there a bit longer but not heaps

The biggest weight gain would come from using the allison autos they come with, they are absolutley massive, if and only if you could make it fit our auto or 5 sp (with out busting to a 1000 bits) it will save heaps

And yeah, a good set of springs would do it, and any one dumb enough to do a conversion like that and not do a brake up grade upgrade shouldnt be doing it, hell im going for bigger brakes on my gu and its only a 4.2, stock s pittiful

here ar the specs for a few motors including the 6bt..... enjoy

17.2.2 Cummins Engine Specs
- ---------------------------
DISP TORQUE DRY WT LENGTH HEIGHT
MODEL (CC) CYL FUEL BHP FT-LB (LBS) (IN) (IN)
4BT3.9 39xx 4 TID 105@2500 260@1500 705 30.1 35.6
4BTA3.9-120 39xx 4 TIDA 120@2500 302@1500 725 30.1 35.6
6BT5.9-160 59xx 6 TID 160@2500 400@1500 880 39.6 36.8
6BTA5.9 59xx 6 TIDA 180@2500 451@1500 905 40.7 36.8