Outer Limits 4x4 Board

had a search didnt come up with much, or like usual come up with a thooooousand threads,


soooo,

im wondering, last night i thought to myself, "iv heard of people driving manuals without using the clutch", and turns out im a pro at it, upshifts and down shifts perfect every time, not sure if its just the paj gearbox or whatever, kinda knew in theory what to do but never tried.

so anyways,

a. how does this work???

b. is it bad for anything? gearbox/clutch???

thats about it, i just thought it was so much easier than using the clutch but wanted to make sure i wasnt going to fark anything at the same time...

dean

Basically, you're syncronising the gear speeds yourself by timing and feel, along with the syncros doing their bit.

Early Gen 3 hilux boxes are great for it once nicely worn in.

It's not really bad for anything so long as you aren't smashing anything through or really leaning on the stick to force it.

It's certainly not bad for the clutch - you're not using it

Steve.

yeh sweet that what i figured i just wanted to make sure. hahaha and yeh i figured nothing with the clutch cos you werent using it but just wanted to make sure.

the paj gearbox seems to do it pretty well, the new l300 i was driving the other day did it, but nowhere near as good, the paj is very easy to drive with no clutch. stoked no crunching and not really any force needed at all.

dean

If you can't find it, grind it .... and then your doing damage. Otherwise, knock yourself out. Novelty wore out after about 5mins for me tho

You get used to doing this when driving trucks. Its much less effort not pushing the clutch. and most crash boxes in larger trucks are actually easier to change without the clutch.

I had a V8 LH Torana with an old steel case Celica 5spd in it and 3.9 diff gears and used to be able to do burn outs from 1st to 5th without lifting my left foot off the brake

i learn't pretty quick when i did my clutch at rover park a few years back and had to drive back to brissie, makes things easy once you get the knack about it

yeh that was more the thing, i was stoked i could do it, and the fact that if need be its easy as. the novelty does wear off, though its still fun

dean

i also did it after burning the clutch out offroad... got very good at it, but then a zuk clutch isnt exactly heavy, and stopping and starting at the traffic lights is kind of a jerky experience =P

I found the best practice ground was using the AVIS rent-a-car running through Port Maq, wachope, etc during a rally - nothing wrong the clutch or box - we just got lazy.

Having the left foot in plaster for 6 weeks also helps to learn driving without clutch Only dificulty is parking in tiny spots

When i'm driving the GQ around town, or cruising around in no particular hurry i dont use the clutch. One of my mates is a trucky and has a 96 model 2.8 hilux. He only uses the clutch in first - nothing else.

When i have passengers that dont usually come with me, they never actually SAY anything, but you can see a stupid/confused/scared look in their face out of the corner of your eye. I just tell them that my GQ has one of those flash new tiptronic semi-automatic sequencial anti-slip race shift gearbox's.

My diff backlash needs to be reset, so i'm not exactly getting ANY real smooth changed atm.

Coxy

had to do this one night in hilux everytime i had to stop i would turn it off and start it in 1st gear is this how you guys are taking off

bump the key in 2nd at the lights normally

semi automatic is so much better

all gears, no clutch, no auto dropping, it sticks to the gears you put it in

klrevo wrote: not sure if its just the paj gearbox or whatever,

its the paj box

i can do it in most cars i have driven but the paj is certainly the easiest

RUFF wrote:
I had a V8 LH Torana with an old steel case Celica 5spd in it and 3.9 diff gears and used to be able to do burn outs from 1st to 5th without lifting my left foot off the brake

BS

Being a truckie, this sounds great, as we do it all the time with crash boxes. problem is though, with a syncro box, by continually doing this, you f---k the syncros. Not really a good practice with a syncro box. Good to know so you can get out of trouble if need be, but that is as far as I would push it.

cloughy wrote:

RUFF wrote:
I had a V8 LH Torana with an old steel case Celica 5spd in it and 3.9 diff gears and used to be able to do burn outs from 1st to 5th without lifting my left foot off the brake

BS

x2

midi73 wrote: by continually doing this, you f---k the syncros.

That's what I was going to say. I can't believe it got this far before someone warned you about it. Once the syncros are gone, then you will have trouble changing gears with the clutch!

cloughy wrote:

RUFF wrote:
I had a V8 LH Torana with an old steel case Celica 5spd in it and 3.9 diff gears and used to be able to do burn outs from 1st to 5th without lifting my left foot off the brake

BS

post up a vid ruff

v6hilux wrote:

midi73 wrote: by continually doing this, you f---k the syncros.

That's what I was going to say. I can't believe it got this far before someone warned you about it. Once the syncros are gone, then you will have trouble changing gears with the clutch!

okay, well iv gone back to using the clutch anyways, it was more of a short term experiment so i knew it wasnt that hard. The paj gearbox certainly does seem very easy to do it in, cos iv tried a couple others and theyre not as easy, but still doable.

thought it would stuff the syncros and thats pretty much the main reason i never tried it until i was in someone elses car then i tried mine.

dean

v6hilux wrote:

midi73 wrote: by continually doing this, you f---k the syncros.

That's what I was going to say. I can't believe it got this far before someone warned you about it. Once the syncros are gone, then you will have trouble changing gears with the clutch!

no wonder i cant do it lol, my box has eaten its syncros :(

bakerboy wrote:

v6hilux wrote:

midi73 wrote: by continually doing this, you f---k the syncros.

That's what I was going to say. I can't believe it got this far before someone warned you about it. Once the syncros are gone, then you will have trouble changing gears with the clutch!

no wonder i cant do it lol, my box has eaten its syncros :(

Drove a bogie isuzu with 500,000 km for 3 months, it had a eaton syncro box. Easy to use no clutch in it, wouldnt even need it to change ranges. Just have to have the right timing, etc. Dont rush it.

Now i drive a merc single drive tipper with a R/R and have to use the clutch to get it out of gear as it like to hold on to em. Has done 980,000 though.

The freightliner R/R at work is a fresh rebuild, soooo smooth.

I would have thought that if you were matching the revs perfectly (which you should be!) the synchro's wouldn't really be affected?

-Stu

haha it works now tried it on the way home from uni took a while but i got it now lol

dogbreath_48 wrote:I would have thought that if you were matching the revs perfectly (which you should be!) the synchro's wouldn't really be affected?

This ain't rocket science!

So, how do we accurately measure the exact engine RMP (within 1 RMP), the front half of the gearbox to the tail shaft RMP, back of gear box, so the gears can mesh without any conflict (grind)?

Syncros are actually is like a slipping clutch that bring both front and back of the gear box to the same RMP so the gears can mesh.

Try this experiment - while at idle on a flat surface, hand brake off, without pressing the clutch, push your gearstick towards first - note the forward movement of the car as the syncro clutch tries equalise the gears to mesh.

v6hilux wrote:

dogbreath_48 wrote:I would have thought that if you were matching the revs perfectly (which you should be!) the synchro's wouldn't really be affected?

This ain't rocket science!

So, how do we accurately measure the exact engine RMP (within 1 RMP), the front half of the gearbox to the tail shaft RMP, back of gear box, so the gears can mesh without any conflict (grind)?

Syncros are actually is like a slipping clutch that bring both front and back of the gear box to the same RMP so the gears can mesh.

Try this experiment - while at idle on a flat surface, hand brake off, without pressing the clutch, push your gearstick towards first - note the forward movement of the car as the syncro clutch tries equalise the gears to mesh.

Yeah i understand how a synchro box works. I don't believe it would be too hard to match RPM to 'box speed. How do people change gears without (or even with) the clutch in a non syncro box? By matching revs i assume?

By using the clutch you are even more reliant on the synchro's because you lose control of the input speed (obviously less load involved though).

so started playing around in the work van 2day, and i can upshift no worries, but downshifting doesnt wanna happen for me... i used to be able to do it in the old MQ when i had it, but the VW van has got me beat thus far...

macca81 wrote:so started playing around in the work van 2day, and i can upshift no worries, but downshifting doesnt wanna happen for me... i used to be able to do it in the old MQ when i had it, but the VW van has got me beat thus far...

Rev it to increase engine RPM to match it to box speed. Then clunck

macca81 wrote:so started playing around in the work van 2day, and i can upshift no worries, but downshifting doesnt wanna happen for me... i used to be able to do it in the old MQ when i had it, but the VW van has got me beat thus far...

Try bringing the Revs up while it's in neutral