Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I have a 60lt tank in the back and just finished installing the 90lt below the car.

Now I can't see that it matters the order which it fills however the physics of LPG are still new to me so I'm asking this question:

Does it matter the order the tanks fill? Ie with a single filler hose,do i run the filler to the top one, T from here and then to the bottom one, or vice versa?

With my current setup it is easiest to run it to the bottom tank first so Im hoping it doesn't matter.

A simple double pole, double throw switch in the dash, your just switching which sender goes to the dash fuel gauge on one side and which tank lock-off valve to energise. Each of those devises are single wire.

Both tanks a simple hose and filler fitting each.As for your main question, I think both tanks will accept LPG at first, then the tank with the more restrictive AFL valve, when it's 80% full will stop accepting LPG, the second tank will still accept LPG till it's 80% full. I don't think it matters how you configure the T, as the LPG will take the path of the least resistance, probably sharing the filling as you go.

I did mine a bit different;



1 filler for each tank.


You will need a Hydrostatic Relief Valve that T's between the 2 Service (LPG out) lines from each tank. This ensures the there is not double pressure at the converter.




When wiring the tank Lock Off Valves, they come from a double pole switch in-cab, so I can choose which tank to run off to assist weight distribution and it's like having a reserve tank. The switch also switches which fuel level sender is active.

This how my 2 tanks are mounted;



2 fillers are better than 1. I use 2 pumps at once and it saves a bit of time!

juls wrote: Ie with a single filler hose,do i run the filler to the top one, T from here and then to the bottom one, or vice versa?

Wont matter

Both tanks will fill at the same rate up untill the AFL stops the small tank from filling, the the remainder will just flow to the large tank untill its AFL stops the flow.



Duel fillers can at times be an advantage.... say you only wish to fill one tank and not the other for example.....

A bit of smart wireing can also be applied so that you can choose between tanks and if you get real smart you can choose which tanks fuel level you wish to see via the same guage

( I can be using my main tank and by flicking a switch view the fuel level in the reserve tank..... I only have 1 guage on the dash )


& ..... By law .....

you'll need a "Hydrostatic Relief Valve" fitted.

Copper fill and/or supply lines are illegal
( must be a "hose" type for all lines ..... engine bay exceptions may apply IE: "enginebay lockout valve to converter" )

Filler necks must not be mounted on bumperbars or in an imidiate 'crash' vacinity.

Filler necks must NOT be at a height that "kneeling or squating is required in order to attatch the filler nozzle

You are not permitted to touch or alter any LPG fittings unless you are a qualified LPG specialist and are doing such work at a registered LPG service facility.
The ONLY exceptions are.....
from the last lockout valve in the engine bay to the engine
(IE: converter and mixer may be worked on)

the supply taps that are fitted to the tanks sub compartments
( so that the LPG can be shut off by closing off the tap )

Just remember that with your fill lines and service lines you are dealing with a liquid not a gas.

Thanks for the info guys. I got the lines done yesterday (except for the fillers) and hydrostatic valve mounted so we are almost in business.

Going to be nice to drive more than 250kms between stops.

cheers

V8Patrol wrote: Copper fill and/or supply lines are illegal
( must be a "hose" type for all lines ..... engine bay exceptions may apply IE: "enginebay lockout valve to converter" )

Filler necks must not be mounted on bumperbars or in an imidiate 'crash' vacinity.

Filler necks must NOT be at a height that "kneeling or squating is required in order to attatch the filler nozzle

I would assume your taking "amanded" Victoria specific or National regs, as mine was certified 12.5 years ago and none of that applied

How much is this likely to set you back?

I wouldn't mind fitting 2nd tank to TB42e GQ. I'd probably source 2nd hand tank, bracket, etc. May be able to get hydrostatic valve, hoses, etc. from work. Then get gas fitter to fit it all up.

What spec hydrostatic valve is req'd? What other gear is needed? I like the twin filler with switch setup best. What capacity tanks are available?

Currently got a 110l (90usable). Would probably get another, or slightly smaller.

GQ Bear wrote:How much is this likely to set you back?

I wouldn't mind fitting 2nd tank to TB42e GQ. I'd probably source 2nd hand tank, bracket, etc. May be able to get hydrostatic valve, hoses, etc. from work. Then get gas fitter to fit it all up.

What spec hydrostatic valve is req'd? What other gear is needed? I like the twin filler with switch setup best. What capacity tanks are available?

Currently got a 110l (90usable). Would probably get another, or slightly smaller.

I agree, wouldnt mind doing the same myself. I can get the tank no probs, and set it up on the vehicle, just wondering what it would cost to get it all hooked up.

Wouldnt mind knowing about the "tricky wiring" you were talking about V8Patrol.....

"A bit of smart wireing can also be applied so that you can choose between tanks and if you get real smart you can choose which tanks fuel level you wish to see via the same guage

( I can be using my main tank and by flicking a switch view the fuel level in the reserve tank..... I only have 1 guage on the dash ) "

Any Diagrams ?

GQ Bear wrote:What spec hydrostatic valve is req'd? What other gear is needed? I like the twin filler with switch setup best.

The wiring a switch in is a piece of piss. 1 single wire comes from the tank sender to the dash gauge. 1 side of a double pole, double throw switch will do. Just hook each tank to the outer pins, gauge to the middle pin.

Also a single wire that goes to the lock-off valve at the tank. The other side of the above switch will do! The 2 lock-off valves to the outside and the interlocked voltage supply to the middle pin.

You can also have a secret switch that breaks the interlocked lock-off valve voltage supply as a secret kill switch. My car only gets 500M if I forget to enable the lock-off valve.

GQ Bear wrote:What spec hydrostatic valve is req'd?

Looks like a Sherwood 3866

the tricky wiring is not tricky at all, just involves a dual function switch which can be used to power your solenoid and feed gas gauge wire through.

The hydrostatic valve is only required if you want the gas to flow from both tanks simultaneously other wise wire a switch so you can use 1 tank at a time so then you will know exactly when 1 tank is empty and when the other is being used.

Loanrangie wrote:The hydrostatic valve is only required if you want the gas to flow from both tanks simultaneously other wise wire a switch so you can use 1 tank at a time so then you will know exactly when 1 tank is empty and when the other is being used.

By law, with 2 tanks fitted, you need a HRV.

Did I include the full stop?

How do we know the owner isn't going to break the switch and to get home, join the 2 tank solenoid wires together in the future?

v6hilux wrote:Did I include the full stop?

And you wonder why people here think your a Tool

v6hilux wrote:

GQ Bear wrote:What spec hydrostatic valve is req'd?

Looks like a Sherwood 3866

Really now how about answering his question. If you can not then why bother replying at all

v6hilux wrote:Also a single wire that goes to the lock-off valve at the tank. The other side of the above switch will do!

Not if you want Kingy's ability to drive on one tank and look at the contents of the other (not sure why you'd want to?) That would need two separate switches.

If you want both tanks feeding independantly(ie selectable), you need seperate fillers, by law, pretty sure they introduced this around the same time that AU wagons started being factory fitted with LPG.

If both tanks feed simultaneously, you can use one filler.

Both configurations require a hydrostatic valve.

I just fitted twin tanks to an old ford, and that is the info I was given about 12 months ago.

The hydrostatic valve has nothing to do with "double the pressure", its simply a safety device to prevent backfilling if you are filling the car up with the engine running, and hence the lockoff(s) open.

RUFF wrote:Really now how about answering his question. If you can not then why bother replying at all

It's a pre-set, industry standard that must not be deviated from!

LTD351T wrote:The hydrostatic valve has nothing to do with "double the pressure", its simply a safety device to prevent backfilling if you are filling the car up with the engine running, and hence the lockoff(s) open.

Why is there a venting valve, rear of the one on my car, that you can't see in the picture! I know these valves prevent back-flow, so why also the "over pressure" venting valve?

v6hilux wrote:

RUFF wrote:Really now how about answering his question. If you can not then why bother replying at all

It's a pre-set, industry standard that must not be deviated from!

So the standard states that you must use a Sherwood 3866 HSV and nothing else?

RUFF wrote:So the standard states that you must use a Sherwood 3866 HSV and nothing else?

The part details for obtaining a HRV are a good starting point and an inequivalent part may be sourced using the detail provided.

What is HSV?

v6hilux wrote:

RUFF wrote:So the standard states that you must use a Sherwood 3866 HSV and nothing else?

The part details for obtaining a HRV are a good starting point and an inequivalent part may be sourced using the detail provided.

What is HSV?

Sorry ment to say HRV.

Im not looking for this info. Someone else asked for the specs. You posted a pic and a smart ass comment as usual and did nothing to help answer his question. If you can not answer the questions without being a smart ass dont bother replying.

Actually if i find another reply from you in a tech section where you are being a smart ass rather than answering a question i will remove you from this site. Ive had enough of your bullshit as have a lot of other members here.

Obviously there's some confusion here as to what certain items do and actually dont do !!!


HRV:
This valve ( and the "Sheerwood" brand is the most common ) is nothing more than a ONEWAY VALVE thats configuration is nothing more than a Tee Piece.

Its sole job is to stop backflow between tanks ..... AND to stop backflow from the enginebay supply line.

To simplyfy it.....
Without this valve placed between the 2 tanks and the engine supply line the LPG in liquid form be able to flow between tanks (even if one tanks valve is shut off ) and flow in both directions in the engine supply line.

Example:
Say you wire a switch to operate both shutoff solinoids on the 2 tanks seperately so that you can electrically select which tank is supplying and which tank is not supplying, once the fuel in the tank is used up and you switch to the other tank the LPG will then backfill the empty tank untill its contents are the same as the 'full tank'....... its called ......
Pressure equalisation


The shutoff solinoids ONLY work to stop LPG from exiting the tank.
They DO NOT stop LPG from entering the tank.

Its the back filling of the tank thats the issue and thats why the law makers introduced the HRV laws.

Seeing most LPG fitters run a single supply line to the engine bay the HRV or oneway valves must by law be included in the setup to stop LPG flow between tanks.





HOWEVER........

Should you run 2 supply lines to the engine bay (IE: each tank has its own supply line thats independant of the other ) there must be a lockout valve fitted to each supply line within the enginebay confines when a single converter is in use AND a suitable one way valve MUST be fitted to each supply line.
(foot note: 2 enginebay lockouts are also required for duel supply lines and duel converter systems.)
I dont need to go into details here as 99.9999999999999999% of LPG users wont ever fit these types of setups but these systems do NOT require HRV's or one way valves to be fitted and are the ONLY systems by law that they are not required on.



&

before anyone asks.......

Yes......
you can use an ordinary Tee piece to join the 2 tank supply lines......

BUT.....
there MUST BE a one way valve fitted to each supply line before the Tee piece.

Hence the HRV.......
( its cheaper than a Tee piece and two oneway valves and the extra supply line )

LTD351T wrote:If you want both tanks feeding independantly(ie selectable), you need seperate fillers, by law, pretty sure they introduced this around the same time that AU wagons started being factory fitted with LPG.

It was a short lived law....... Enviromental and safety issues saw it disbanded.

You can have either the single fill of duel fill setup on a duel tank system.



foot note:
They also change the laws regarding the location of the fillers at the same time..... I've noted that in an earlier post.

2nd foot note:
The introduction of having 2 LPG "stickers" ( or diamonds) fitted to your numberplates was also introduced at the same time for duel tank setups.
( prior to that only one "sticker" was required even if 2 tanks were fitted )
& YES you must have a "sticker" for EACH TANK THATS FITTED..... so if you have 5 LPG tanks then you must have 5 "stickers" on each number plate.

( the most I've seen is 5 tanks on a C20 Chevy pickup !!! ...... it was a real bytch to fit the 5 "stickers" too )

-Scott- wrote:Not if you want Kingy's ability to drive on one tank and look at the contents of the other (not sure why you'd want to?) That would need two separate switches.

In this particular system that I have fitted I have over 1000K's of usable LPG in total.......

I can select which tank I choose to 'empty' first for better weight distribution or I can run the 2 tanks at the same time.

With that information you can now see that after 8hours of driving one may forget as to what fuel is left in which tank..... hence the ability to drive on one tank and be able to view the contents of the other at any time without disrupting the actual LPG flow systems.

v6hilux wrote:

V8Patrol wrote: Copper fill and/or supply lines are illegal
( must be a "hose" type for all lines ..... engine bay exceptions may apply IE: "enginebay lockout valve to converter" )

Filler necks must not be mounted on bumperbars or in an imidiate 'crash' vacinity.

Filler necks must NOT be at a height that "kneeling or squating is required in order to attatch the filler nozzle

I would assume your taking "amanded" Victoria specific or National regs, as mine was certified 12.5 years ago and none of that applied

Tank certification is only valid for 10 years......

your 2.5years past its "useby date"

So either you havent had the tanks re-certified ..... naughty boy !
or
You removed the tanks and had them recertified away from the vehicel....

I therefore asume you did this under your LPG fitters licence and on a licenced LPG service premisis


Copper fill & supply lines are redundant and have been so for MORE than 10 years.




your a bit like a whitworth spanner arent you........
totally useless these days but still every tool box has to have atleast one.

V8Patrol wrote:

v6hilux wrote:

V8Patrol wrote: Tank certification is only valid for 10 years......

your 2.5years past its "useby date"

So either you havent had the tanks re-certified ..... naughty boy !
or
You removed the tanks and had them recertified away from the vehicel....

I therefore asume you did this under your LPG fitters licence and on a licenced LPG service premisis

Kingy, what do you mean by this. ie. If my gas system was installed 19 years ago, and has a copper line, when i take my car to the LPG place to be certified again, do they replace the copper lines with hose?

V8Patrol wrote:Copper fill & supply lines are redundant and have been so for MORE than 10 years.

Still legal and used daily on new installs here in QLD.

juls wrote:If my gas system was installed 19 years ago, and has a copper line, when i take my car to the LPG place to be certified again, do they replace the copper lines with hose?

In Vic they're not sposed to re-cert the tank (although it happens)
It was worked out so that once a car came in for a tank re-certification the old copper lines would be replaced as part of that re-certification..... therotecialy all LPG systems in Vic will eventually be hose once the law has been in effect for 10years.

My last insurance renewal asked for a LPG certicication certificate ( LPG instalation was noted on the original insurance agreement ), they would not re-insure the vehicle had I not of supplied the certificate.
There have been reports of insurance companies not paying out due to 'expired' tank certifications.

One way or the other eventually copper will be phased out here in Vic

RUFF wrote:

V8Patrol wrote:Copper fill & supply lines are redundant and have been so for MORE than 10 years.

Still legal and used daily on new installs here in QLD.

Yeah but OLD is a whole differant country ........... isnt it
&
With the tough vehicle modification laws, its supprising they even allow LPG near cars