Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i have a 1970 hilux RWD that i've been doing up. I'ts got a 12R 1600cc that has pretty bad compression figures and will probably have to go, and 4spd column shift.
I like the column shift and would like to keep it, or possibly go auto.

So im looking for a new engine.

May be a 2RZ out of a hiace?

But then i'm looking at running it gas only so maybe a injected computerised engine would be just as easy? (with a gas carby, and black box for the ignition)

22R would be the natrual choice, But will it bolt up to the engine mounts?
The 22R is still an old engine though, so something more efficient would be better, and I dont mind doing a new crossmember, mounts, and tailshaft, as the tailshaft is U/S anyway.

Also thinking of a 3.8 holden motor, but this would be hard to register (with the drum brakes) and possibly conflict with the steering box.

i plan on keeping this vehicle and want to pick the right engine (lpg effiency is the major concern) and also want a column shift (auto or manual)

It would be good to hear everybody's thaughts on the matter.

Cheers, Rhys.

3rz which is the later modle 2.7 fuel injected, stock i think the 22r has 75kw and the 3rz had around 108kw they are (so iv read) a really good engine. be intresting to see what other people say.

good luck

Commodore engine is not hard to engineer, remembering the hilux has brakes on it to carry around 1 tonne, no engineer will have a problem with the conversion, other than a stock engine, the como engine is probly the cheapest option as you can buy conversion kits and the engine its self is worth nothing, 3rz's are good ive got a turbo petrol one, but there pretty pricey to buy the engine ecu etc and everything to get it running.

22r would be cheap, but thirsty for a little motor that doesnt punch out to much power, running gas would make it worthwhile though.

my 93 mod has a 22r motor with 460tho kays with gas it chirps 3 gear

What about the holden 3.6L alloytec engine and auto. These sell resonably cheap as there is not a real big demand.
Make 170kw stock, nice and light, none of them are real old.
and being a 2wd don't need adapter kits, just hve to mod mounts and driveshafts to suit the motor and commodore auto.

killalux wrote:What about the holden 3.6L alloytec engine and auto. These sell resonably cheap as there is not a real big demand.
Make 170kw stock, nice and light, none of them are real old.
and being a 2wd don't need adapter kits, just hve to mod mounts and driveshafts to suit the motor and commodore auto.

This seems like it could be a winner.. one on ebay now for $3300 buy it now with everything box, comp ect. hmm, Pity i have no money....

but yeah.. seems like it would be good.. i like the quad cam VVT. If it was detuned a bit and gas only. (with higher compression, cam ect) it would be nice and efficient and still have plenty of stick...

Probably cheaper than a 3RZ too.. and auto, so no problem with the Column shift.. Nice.

I was looking into gas injection too.. Couldnt find any prices but $4500 seems to be the go? which makes the motor look cheap..lol


i want a efficient ute with prices the way they are, so i think the 22R is probably out.. (well it wouldnt be as sexy as a Quad cam 3.6L anyway)

Here in Malaysia the toyo 1JZ motor is a very popular transplant. Largely due to the road tax. However its still a potent beast 2.5litres. Do a google on it.

Here they usually go for around 1 to 2kA$ for the halfcut.

knew a bloke up your way who put a 186 holden in one
not sure on the economy tho
or the engineering

There are a few later model 2wd hilux's floating round with SR20DET & CA18DET nissan 4 cyls in them. Might be worth considering, as they are not that expensive, and have a bit of go straight out of the box with plenty more.

Layto....

90Mav wrote:

killalux wrote:What about the holden 3.6L alloytec engine and auto. These sell resonably cheap as there is not a real big demand.
Make 170kw stock, nice and light, none of them are real old.
and being a 2wd don't need adapter kits, just hve to mod mounts and driveshafts to suit the motor and commodore auto.

This seems like it could be a winner.. one on ebay now for $3300 buy it now with everything box, comp ect. hmm, Pity i have no money....

but yeah.. seems like it would be good.. i like the quad cam VVT. If it was detuned a bit and gas only. (with higher compression, cam ect) it would be nice and efficient and still have plenty of stick...

Probably cheaper than a 3RZ too.. and auto, so no problem with the Column shift.. Nice.

I was looking into gas injection too.. Couldnt find any prices but $4500 seems to be the go? which makes the motor look cheap..lol


i want a efficient ute with prices the way they are, so i think the 22R is probably out.. (well it wouldnt be as sexy as a Quad cam 3.6L anyway)

Just one thing to keep in mind is if your not real good with electrics, allow a few dollars to have it wired as these are not an overly simple system, and diagrams aren't redily available yet.
Also remember these are a drive by wire system, so you have to mount an electric throttle pedal.
It however would be a great conversion. I am looking for a cheap lux as a work ute and will drop one of these in.
If you are gonna get someone to do he electrics keep me in mind, I can come to you, and wire it up for you at a great price if ya want (free plug for me )

I like the 3.6 holden idea and i'll look into it further, 22R is out due to fuel consumption. 1 or 2JZ or any straight 6 would be too long for the engine bay and i don't want to cut the firewall (having had previous experiance)

3RZ looks too expensive and carby 2RZ also dearish, and not much better than 22R

3.8 Commo is still a posibility, trick is finding a good one these days i guess...

sr20det would be ok.. but i somehow don't want to put a nissan motor in a toyota ( I put a cruiser bumper on the maverick/patrol and look what happened to it )

So bar finding a cheap 3RZ it'll be a v6 i guess, unless there are ant other ideas?

your hilux will be drum brake front and rear. to get anything engineered you will need to do a disc brake front conversion and fit latter model brakes to the back. the drums are about 50mm larger in diameter off memory.

since your cab is narrow once you fit a booster you are limited for space between the head and booster. depending how much work you want to do you could fit one from an econovan or the like which mounts under the dash board. or use a VH44 but they are getting hard to come buy.

I personally wouldnt use a 2rz, the early ones are carby and the later ones are efi. the motors are a piece of crap and expensive to repair or replace. they drop valves of the heads go soft.

I would do one of two things. first choice would be a 4agze super charged 20 valve 4cyl engine which will bolt to a number of toyota gearboxes cutting down on the cost of the conversion. althou the engines can be expensive to start out. second choice would be a 21rc out of a celica, not a power house but most have powersteer and ac so these could be retro fitted to the hilux, although i think the hilux you have the steering box mounts close to the fire wall not the rad support. i think you can use an early hiace powersteer box off like an rn63 commuter. plus a celica is worth nothing and you should get a 5 speed one for around 500 bucks.

on a side note, a twin turbo lexus 3litre v6 would be pretty cool.

NICK

What gearbox would i have? and are there conversion options for it? what other 4/5speeds with levers are available?

the 21RC mightn't be a bad idea if i cant raise any money..

What is the deal exactly with getting the brakes engineered?
surely you could run a 2L motor without upgrading the brakes?

How about a 3S-GE ? from a Altezza or lexus? might be worth a look..

the 3.6 would probably be a tight fit.. I'll have to measure one up.

Rhys

Hi I have been running a na 3sge from a 98 celica in my 79 hilux for 3 years and it has been great it has even been up the cape twice and under water many times it kept running! (with a snorkle of corse)
they are rated at 136 kw has more torque down low than the 22r or 18r
then revs to about 7500 rpm
they are small and light
i was getting 11 liters per hundred out of it on the hiway with 32s
so in a 2 wheel drive it would be better
you need new front mounts and a hilux five speed colume manual with a 4y or 3y bell housing yep it fits I have done it so i know
and they hall arse
i pull up in my 1979 4x4 next to a new 2.7 4x2 and they are even till halfway through first then i hit power band just as they change gear at 6000 and it is all over i pull about 3 car lengths the look on the other guys face is priceless
as my lux runs split rims and a standard style side plus lots of dents
but it sounds like a honda civic vtir

something to think about

I was looking at a 3sge out of a Lexus ls200, as its rear wheel drive, with 5spd auto. there also about $5000 so probably won't be happening.
A FWD 3sge is a different thing though, if it will bolt up to a 3/4y bell housing then it would be sweet as.

what clutch/flywheel mods/parts were required?

what FWD to RWD mods were required?

the 3SGE was my favorite but i was looking at going a 4AGE due to price, so this may be the go.

I've been slack and haven't finished painting the ute yet though. so the engine swap is still a way off. (luckily as i'm broke )

I used a flywheel from a corona which came out with the 2s but i got it modded to 8 bolt and the starter as well you do need to mod the 4y 3y bell housing slightly
just one of the top bolts does not line up so i welded up the hole and put the 2s sandwhitch plate on used it as a template and drilled through, peice of piss
do the same with the starter as the 2 s holes are spaced diferent on the starter

my engine cost $500 with an fwd auto on it

have seen them commonly for about the $1200 mark with ecu

you should be able to get the parts for under $2000 inc gearbox

forget about the altessa option i have done two of these before and the auto is worse than the manual they have multiplexers everywhere
the gearshift is connected to the aircon computer!!!
if you donot get a cut you are stuffed

it is easer to mod a fwd eng and heaps cheaper the fwd intake fitted under the bonnet just welded a right angle on the throttle body to clear the firewall

use the sump off a 2s corona and pick up
custom set of extractors and you are done

i,ve got a complete low k 2.5 1jzgte conversion with a gt garrett turbo ,full loom , fmic , bellhousing ,engine mounts , all piping , fuel pump , radiator , every thing to do the conversion ,actually its in my work car right now . cost me nearly 10 grand to get it set up , its all as new so its got to be worth 5g , it makes the ultimate lux. cheers darin

Cheers thrashlux. I think this may be the best solution. I'm not after a wicked powerhouse (or am I ) more a reliable and cheap to run Gas only work truck. A turbo isn't out of the question though but i'd probably go a low pressure setup.

A 1/2JZ would be a really tight fit, probably have to cut the firewall, which i did on a '76 lux to fit a 202. That worked ok, but i wanted to keep this one more origional.
I dont think any straight 6 would fit bar a 1G possibly. but if im going to have a 2L i may as well have one that fits easily

I have been semi-seriously considering electric power. the initial setup for something useable (50km range - less than 8 hour charge) is <$10,000 which is more than i can afford. if i had the money though, i'd probably go a electric setup. check this one out http://www.evdrive.com/BMW_project/ProjectBMW.html

I have always been interested in the electric option
the only thing you need to concider is what the cost of replacement batteries are?

Hey I think you should stick with your plan for a 3s but there is more than one way to skin a cat
i got a 2j in my 79 lux without cutting the fire wall by mounting the radiator under the forward section of the tray it has scoops on both sides built into the front of the tray and the hot air exits via the left side in front of the wheel it works fine no cooling probs at all i run a 71 mm core

more bad ideas to knock you off a sensible track

Look for a 3TGTEU toyota engine.
1.8L, twin cam, twin ingintion( 8 spark plugs, all in a line) fuel inj, Elec ing, turbo.
I had one in my RA28 celica and could pull 220km/hr in 3rd gear (Only on the track of course......officer )
It's a RWD and should be easy to get hold of one.
Mine had a microtech computer that was dead simple to wire up. As for g/boxes, getting a auto to mate to it would be dead easy.

a mate of mine has a 94ish mod xtracab with a ca18det in it bolted straight in but i think hes running a celica box, engine mounts straight up from memory, goes extremely well. also theres a 13bt powered lux up this way goes off! but personally id go the ca for reliabilty, a cheap conversion

I had a 3tgteu in a ta22 but it was lower reving , 8valve and less powerful 120kw,than a 16v gen 3 3sge 136kw that i had in my ra 23, it did have good midrange but drank fuel 350km per tank (microtec )copared to the 3sge 550km per tank(late model factory injection)
also spares started becoming a problem due to its age the last one was made in about 1984
the fact it was never released here where as the 3sge nearly ever toyota dealer has spares due to the fact they came out in aus spec celicas and mr 2s
but you would be able to hook it up to an old school 3speed auto from a 2T (dont know how strong they are though)

Dont want to be a downer but i have already been down that road
now i am trying my luck with 2jz's but my ra 23 has a 3sgt in it now it is still the same car it has been around since 1995 and had 5 diferent engines!types that is

thrashlux wrote:I had a 3tgteu in a ta22 but it was lower reving , 8valve and less powerful 120kw,than a 16v gen 3 3sge 136kw that i had in my ra 23, it did have good midrange but drank fuel 350km per tank (microtec )copared to the 3sge 550km per tank(late model factory injection)
also spares started becoming a problem due to its age the last one was made in about 1984
the fact it was never released here where as the 3sge nearly ever toyota dealer has spares due to the fact they came out in aus spec celicas and mr 2s
but you would be able to hook it up to an old school 3speed auto from a 2T (dont know how strong they are though)

Dont want to be a downer but i have already been down that road
now i am trying my luck with 2jz's but my ra 23 has a 3sgt in it now it is still the same car it has been around since 1995 and had 5 diferent engines!types that is

My old silly car was getting over 550km every tank, over 650 on long drives. And never lacked for power. I fitted the engine in 95 and had it up to 99 and it never missed a beat, couldn't kill it. I could rev the bastard out to nearly 8000.
I got it as bare motor and gearbox and everything hanging off the motor (Alt, starter,ac, p/s pump etc). Dont know what work was done to it before I got it from the importers though.

I Hadn't come across 3tgteu's before, would probably be good, but id rather a low km, engine if i can manage it for the right price.
there was a 18RGEU on ebay for $600 which would be nearly as good.

Something newer with a modern computer would be best for the sequential gas injection i plan on fitting. Although i believe standalone gas computers are available, getting a late model engine is probably the best bet i think.

The 18rg sounds like it could be a good cheap option heaps of autos out there every 18r powered corona has one!
there are a lot more spares for these than the 3tgte but they are not as powerfull and they are also getting old toyota does not stock pistons etc any more thet did upto about 2005

90Mav I was not meaning to dis the 3t they were a great motor in there day and abig improvement over the 18rg or anything else of that time
but a lot has changed since the late 1990's which is when chucky owned his and i had mine also. you can vertually not find them at importers anymore as the cars in japan they used to come from no longer exist
They were only ten years old when chucky got his now they are getting closer to 25 years old

In my experience if you need a reliable economical transport it is better to go for something you can redily get spares and back up for so it is not off the road for long while trying to source parts

that is before we concider the 16 valve or late modern efi advantages the power and torque figures are similar but one is na which equates to less complication ,cash and engineering aproval issues

all these engines are good but you need to pick what is best for your aplication