Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hello all,

As you may know, there is not much currently available in the way of commercially manufactured snorkels for Sierra's. AIRFLOW have one available, but it is NOT designed especially for the Sierra. It is a retrofitted "Rocsta" snorkel which I'm sure you would agree is not a great fit (I wouldn't put one on my Zook anyway)... See http://www.gibsonrm.com.au/html/details.php?no=22

There is a rumor going around that AIRFLOW are considering manufacturing a NEW Sierra snorkel, so I decided to shoot them an email ( info@gibsonrm.com.au ) to see what they had to say about it...

Their response was:

----------------------
"With regards to the Suzuki Sierra snorkel, we are considering the
manufacture of the snorkel. In order to cover the initial cost of
manufacturing and tooling in this competitive market, we need
a minimum of 75 customers genuinely interested in purchasing a snorkel.

If we can get more expressions of interest on this matter either via email
or telephone, I'm optimistic that we can commence the production of the
snorkel in the future."
----------------------

So who is interested? Do we have a market for a decent Sierra snorkel? Like most of us here, I could whip up a PVC one in no time, but if a good commercially made one was available I would buy it!

Cheers all,

Pez

in my experience with airflow its not so much the snorkel that is the problem.....the fitting kit is rubbish. the airtech snorkel is far better.

any idea roughly how much they would want for one?

It would have to be a damn good quality item AND be reasonably priced IE: les than $200 or I'd make my own out of stainless.
Jas.

want33s wrote:It would have to be a damn good quality item AND be reasonably priced IE: les than $200 or I'd make my own out of stainless.
Jas.

x2

want33s wrote:It would have to be a damn good quality item AND be reasonably priced IE: les than $200 or I'd make my own out of stainless.
Jas.

Make your own then - they are worth more than that.

Steve.

You can get the current Airflow one for about $350. I would be happy to pay that amount for a new one that is decent and that I don't have to stuff around with.

This thread is NOT intended to be about what is better (i.e. PVC, Stainless OR New off the shelf). It is ONLY to find out what interest there is in the possibility of the New snorkel...

Also, cost is not the issue for me. I know I can build one for nothing. My point is that I (me, personally) would be happy to buy one off the shelf if it ticked all the boxes! If there are more people who are thinking like me, then we might just get a new product...

Pez

$350 is starting to get into safari territory....aint no aiflow ever going to look like a safari.

Yeah, and there aint no Safari ever going to go on a Sierra either...

$350approx for one is fair enough, but i wouldnt buy one still. 350 could go along way on a sierra.

IMHO I'd spend 40-80 making a steel snorkal (like i already have done) , then spend the other $250odd on other bits or put it towards gears some

poeple are always looking for sierra snorkels but sierra owners dont like spending the money

i would let Al at piranha know about your effort as he would purchase them being the zook nut he is.

Gwagensteve wrote:

want33s wrote:It would have to be a damn good quality item AND be reasonably priced IE: les than $200 or I'd make my own out of stainless.
Jas.

Make your own then - they are worth more than that.

Steve.

I find it hard to believe a plastic pipe can cost $350...I understand the tooling costs involved but I can make a nice stainless intake for a lot less..... If I'm making one I might as well make a few... Sounds like there is a market for a REASONABLY priced Sierra snorkel.

used to have an airflow years ago....think i ended up throwing it away. no one is going to spend 350 bucks on something that has very poor plastic quality, and it will only fit cars with airfilters on the drivers side.

Want 33's - I've made a number of snorkels and wouldn't pay $350 for a snorkel, but not everyone has the ability to fabricate and the fact is the only snorkel currently available for a sierra off the shelf doesn't fit very well.

I think there is a demand but I also think we, as people who can fabricate stuff, aren't the target market.

Steve.

Steve.[/quote]
I find it hard to believe a plastic pipe can cost $350...I understand the tooling costs involved but I can make a nice stainless intake for a lot less..... If I'm making one I might as well make a few... Sounds like there is a market for a REASONABLY priced Sierra snorkel.[/quote]

there is a market for a good product that is well designed and takes into account all the makes, this would cost at least $350 but the problem is poeple dont understand costs that are involved in every step of buisness and try to compare a home jobbie with market products.
( be it good or bad )

X2 Fordy1.

(not having a go Want33's) If you seriously want to make snorkels and sell them great, more competition can only be good, but be realistic about the real cost. Let's assume your material cost is $80 and it takes you 2 hours to assemble one. What's your time worth an hour? You might be happy to do 10 for nothing... but if you're spending every weekend assembling and shipping snorkels, what's your time worth? You can't compare jobs you do at home for fun to a product someone is making a living out of.

What happens when someone drowns a motor and tries to get a new motor out of you because your parts or instructions weren't clear or you hadn't taken into account a small change in model etc...

Just some thoughts.

Steve.

joeblow wrote:used to have an airflow years ago....think i ended up throwing it away. no one is going to spend 350 bucks on something that has very poor plastic quality, and it will only fit cars with airfilters on the drivers side.

There is a difference in quality/design between the old Airflow products and the new ones they are developing. Having had both Safari and a new Airflow I would be just as happy with either. As to the comment about only fitting airfilters on one side, that would pretty much rule out ever buying a plastic snorkel for any vehicle but I think the market has proven that is not the case or companies like Safari, Airtech and Airflow wouldn't be in business. As with anything this is just another option just like there is a choice between welded diffs, spools, auto lockers and air lockers it's a case of different strokes for different folks.

Gwagensteve wrote:X2 Fordy1.

(not having a go Want33's) If you seriously want to make snorkels and sell them great, more competition can only be good, but be realistic about the real cost. Let's assume your material cost is $80 and it takes you 2 hours to assemble one. What's your time worth an hour? You might be happy to do 10 for nothing... but if you're spending every weekend assembling and shipping snorkels, what's your time worth? You can't compare jobs you do at home for fun to a product someone is making a living out of.

What happens when someone drowns a motor and tries to get a new motor out of you because your parts or instructions weren't clear or you hadn't taken into account a small change in model etc...

Just some thoughts.

Steve.

Thanks Steve but I already run my own business and I'm aware of how to cost a product for manufacture and sale.
If as you suggest materials cost $80, my time is worth $45 per hour. That is $170 all up. I can include snorkel head, fittings and postage to anywhere in Aust. and still be under $350.
I would not bother to mass market these myself, except maybe an add on Outers, I would approach ARB,TJM etc if I wanted to do a large production run.
I still cannot see the value in a $350 piece of injection moulded plastic that costs SFA in materials. I realise plastic is lighter and more flexible than stainless therefore it won't crush so maybe aluminium is a better metal to use as far as weight is concerned. A Sierra will probably crush before the pipe (if leant on hard enough) anyway.
Do Airflow and other manufacturers offer a warranty against drowning a motor?

boy your cheap!!

That's all fair enough bu I guess If your snorkel is $170 + air ram + postage (pretty bulky - another $30?) you're at $230 minimum and you've only convered costs.

Like I said, competition is good and make it happen, if we go from one crappy looking snorkel to two good looking snorkels it can only be a good thing.

However, we've really go two markets here - the bolt on/major accessory shop maket (airflow) and the "custom" market reached through places like here. That's fine, but some people will always buy the plastic snorkel because that's their idea of what a snorkel looks like, while others will go fir the fabricated item because it looks tougher, or more like a comp cr or something.

No airflow etc don't warrant a motor for damage, but part of the beauty of the injection moulded design is that there are no joins etc so they can be pretty assured they're not going to leak and they do have lots of experience with setting up connections to airboxes etc. Fitting kits etc need to be foolproof and well engineered or you need to control and train fitting to ensure you don't end up shouldering responsibility for a badly installed snorkel. Obviously, enthusiast owners will check all this for themselves, but owners who have this fitted via a workshop won't.

Just some food for thought. I'm not knocking your idea at all.

Oh as an aside the value of a product has very little to do with the cost involved in its manufacture and more to do with its percieved worth.

Steve.

you still dont get it but thats ok im tired of typing

Good luck with getting the snorkels made, i tried localy but all wanted 20,000 for 1st snorkel.

Some very good, and some incredibly useless comments there chaps!

Anyone who thinks that "no one" would spend $350 on the proposed snorkel must be kidding themselves. As already said, if you would rather build your own snorkel than buy one then JUST DO IT! This thread is for finding out if we have enough interest out there to get a new product on the shelf. (And like all NEW Airflow products, it would be better fitting with better plastics...)

Keep the 'expressions of interest' coming guys...

Pez

Actually, I don't think this requires a poll as the only answers that are relevant are "Yes" answers.

I'm sure there's enough interest, but I'm pretty sure you're not going to get 75 yes answers on here - we're all too tight :o)

Steve.

Haha yeah I know Steve.

I 100% agree with you about the 2 different markets too... The problem is that I wouldn't be a real Zook enthusiast if I didn't run it past the outer crew first!

I'm not expecting 75 "YES" votes on here, but if all who do answer YES could shoot an email to info@gibsonrm.com.au stating their interest, then there is a bloody good chance that we might actually get this thing off the ground!

Cheers,

Pez

Pezooki wrote:Some very good, and some incredibly useless comments there chaps!

Anyone who thinks that "no one" would spend $350 on the proposed snorkel must be kidding themselves. As already said, if you would rather build your own snorkel than buy one then JUST DO IT! This thread is for finding out if we have enough interest out there to get a new product on the shelf. (And like all NEW Airflow products, it would be better fitting with better plastics...)

Keep the 'expressions of interest' coming guys...

Pez

Maybe this has answered your question. People who are looking @ spending $350+ on a snorkel are prob going to buy the airtech or safari over a airflow, or on the flip side some people find $350+ too expensive will look @ making their own. Maybe there is not a market @ this stage.

Just my 2c

Eff

This does highlight the problem with EOI's though that 've seen on here countless times.

An EOI as far as a manufacturer is concerned is "Make one and I'll buy it, as soon as it's available"

It's not "I'd like to see one (for other people to buy) but won't buy one"
or "$350! what a ripoff... I'm sure it only costs $5 to make- I'd love one but won't spend that"
or "Your old stuff was crap so I'm only interested if it's XXXX or they're free"
Or "I'll put a sticker on my car if you give me one for nothing"
or "I'll say I'm interested and then order one through the states in 6 months for less $$

This is an opportunity to support a local supplier with a known product that's even made here. Please leave it at that - if you want one, speak up and email airflow.

I will add that I'm not even remotely interested in one so I haven't emailed or voted but I have seen their recent work and It's good. They're worth supporting if you are seriously in the market.
Steve.

anyone seen if they do a snorkel to fit a weber without choking it of air???

Eff wrote:People who are looking @ spending $350+ on a snorkel are prob going to buy the airtech or safari over a airflow

THERE IS NO SAFARI (or Airtech I believe) SIERRA SNORKEL AVAILABLE!!!!

Gwagensteve wrote: This is an opportunity to support a local supplier with a known product that's even made here. Please leave it at that - if you want one, speak up and email airflow.

X 2. (X eleventygazillion!)

Pez

alien wrote:anyone seen if they do a snorkel to fit a weber without choking it of air???

Snorkels don't attach to the carby at all.... They attach to the airbox(filter housing).

Pezooki wrote:

Eff wrote:People who are looking @ spending $350+ on a snorkel are prob going to buy the airtech or safari over a airflow

THERE IS NO SAFARI (or Airtech I believe) SIERRA SNORKEL AVAILABLE!!!!

Gwagensteve wrote: This is an opportunity to support a local supplier with a known product that's even made here. Please leave it at that - if you want one, speak up and email airflow.

X 2. (X eleventygazillion!)

Pez

I got an airtec for my sierra pretty easily through TJM coburg about a year ago.
maybe they are a done and gone thing.

Eff