Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hi all I'm just trying to find a good motor to put into the zook thats light and has good low torque output
i was wondering if anybody has some figures for different motors

I've noticed signal cam long motors usually are the go.. like the 1.6 MPI but how would this compared to a 1.8TD motor out of a GV
or a 1.6 golf TD

or should i look at something for a Vtech motor or a V4 like out of a lotus :S

in a sierra i think weight is the biggest thing to worry about because you can gear the car down or up to match the torque of any engine. if the engine is light you wont stuff up the handling, if its heavy it becomes very tail happy

you can find the 1.3 engine driving 35+ wheels with gears in the transfer case no trouble and its not a torque monster of a engine.

how much $$ can u spare.

cheapest would be the mpfi vit i would think.

i was thinking upto 4g

I suggest you do a search on diesel engines in this section before you go putting one in, it's been covered a million times.

why is it that you want so much low torque. I would suggest having a look at a 4agze before a diesel, these put out heaps of low torque and heaps of power for onroad and are better suited to zook gearing available. Gearing is everything remember, even with the piss poor excuse for a motor the g13a/ba. I remember reading somewhere that a guy put in a diesel and sure it had low torque but for the gearing to be good offroad meant that the gearing onroad was too low and the diesel was nearing redline at 100clicks. So the only way to get around this would be to put some higher gearing in the diffs and lower in the tcase which proves difficult becuase you really only have 3.7 as the lowest.

GRPABT1 wrote:I suggest you do a search on diesel engines in this section before you go putting one in, it's been covered a million times.

yes I've read quite abit ... main thing what i can see problems with the golf
motor is cost and availability ... also the exhaust is on the other side than a standard motor what i hear?

Spike_Sierra wrote:why is it that you want so much low torque. I would suggest having a look at a 4agze before a diesel, these put out heaps of low torque and heaps of power for onroad and are better suited to zook gearing available. Gearing is everything remember, even with the piss poor excuse for a motor the g13a/ba. I remember reading somewhere that a guy put in a diesel and sure it had low torque but for the gearing to be good offroad meant that the gearing onroad was too low and the diesel was nearing redline at 100clicks. So the only way to get around this would be to put some higher gearing in the diffs and lower in the tcase which proves difficult becuase you really only have 3.7 as the lowest.

but how heavy is a 4agze
also isn't the correct gearbox hard to find for this engine?

i dont think it would be any harder than finding a good diesel motor and box and i wouldnt expect it be very heavy at all, but i dont have a weight figure for you.

i have been keeping an eye out for a 4agze for a while to transplant into my lwb project. Redzook had one for sale for a grand without wiring or computer, which are easy to find on www.rollaclub.com or www.twincam.org

wait .... the 4agze is a twin cam ... doesn't that mean its max power output is later / but revs out more?

you can get a kit to run a sierra box behind a golf motor

ofr57 wrote:wait .... the 4agze is a twin cam ... doesn't that mean its max power output is later / but revs out more?

you can get a kit to run a sierra box behind a golf motor

but its also supercharged boost from idle

boost from idle but power is up high. quite typical for a 4cyl. Gearbox can be an issue with power increases.

Vit engine is easy as using the sierra box.

you could maybe gear the super down to lower rpm torque.

ofr57 wrote:

GRPABT1 wrote:
but how heavy is a 4agze
also isn't the correct gearbox hard to find for this engine?

A 4age bare block and head is apparently 88kgs according to some guy on the toymods forum. My 4age 20v with a/c, alternator and PS pump is bloody heavy. I'll see if I can get around to weighing my 20v this week.

the T50 gearbox out of a sprinter are not that hard to find. I'm putting an 3spd auto behind mine out of and ae71 corolla. Its an Aisin Warner A41.

thats sounds nice ... but is it too much?
4agze motors would be easy to get spares for correct?

hmm since starting this thread it became more of a blur

4AGZE AE92 1989 108kw @ 6400rpm 186nm @ 4400rpm

what does the 1.6 MPI produce

1.6 is about 80 kw i think.

the 4age is the way to go, you can get heaps of parts for them now cause heaps of people use the engine for drifting. i would just use a std 4age out of a 89-92 (i think) corolla and if you want more power put a hair dryer on it later on.

i was to that a celica box will bolt up.

you can also get a bellhousing adaptor to run a w50 box out of a supra as well...but most other boxes that fit work ok...main issue is the zook driveline....

drew off here knows a heap about the 4a engines....

a great gearbox guide is here:

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/ft ... light=4age

dank wrote:you can also get a bellhousing adaptor to run a w50 box out of a supra as well...but most other boxes that fit work ok...main issue is the zook driveline....

drew off here knows a heap about the 4a engines....

a great gearbox guide is here:

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/ft ... light=4age

too much power?

ofr57 -

You'll need to do some real work in relation to gearing, torque, budget, and gearbox choice.

In basic terms, you can run a torquey motor, but if you have to run (much) taller gearing to keep it in it's work rate, you might in fact loose torque at the wheels in some situations because you'll have to run much taller gearing to get a workable result.

A case in point - my Sierra. I run 4300 rpm @ 100km/hr due to my silly low gearing. My motor in stock trim makes 80Nm

In low 1st, I have 130:1, - 80Nm X 130 = 10,400Nm @ the wheels.

Lets say you go to a diesel, and run stock gearing with, say a 33" tyre. This would take your cruise revs to about 2750 RPM. OK for a diesel. Let's say you have 240Nm of torque. Gearing though, is only stock, so you'd only be getting about 7,160Nm @ the wheels. Anything you do to raise low range gearing will also raise high range gearing, something you can't really afford with a diesel.

Obviously, that's for 1st low and you can't ever hook up that much torque, but what's true to 1st low is true for every gear comparing like for like.

4A series motors (which in GZE form is VERY torquey, and will still spin) are limited to a rare 5 speed or a three speed auto AFAIK.

Diesels will have their own challenges - gearbox choice (really, a 4 speed auto or 5 or 6 speed manual would be ideal) and very limited rev range will be the issue, not to mention cost. You'll really chew up your budget quick. There's been a sierra gearbox and VW motor sitting in a mechanical workshop here in Melbourne getting an adapter made up. The mechanic making it all work is confident the Sierra gearbox can take the torque, but by the time it's all worked out it's going to have eaten up a lot of $$$.

Personally, I'd look for a torquey motor, but also one with a wide rev range to work with sierra gearing.

Maybe a 3RZ, my favorite for a torquey, (240Nm) long stroke motor, with viable gearbox choices. Even this motor though, due to its stroke (and tuning) has limited revs, and gets pretty thrashy around 5500 rpm.

Just some thoughts.

Steve.

Steve.