Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just picked up the Jabber before and gave it a bit of a test run in low range.................
With the 2.85 t/case it almost feels like you have another gear in low range.
1.925 t/case 2.85 t/case
1st = 36.5:1 1st = 54:1
2nd = 21.2:1 2nd = 31.4:1
3rd = 13.1:1 3rd = 19.4:1

So the old 1st gear low range is almost the same as the new 2nd gear low range.
You can certainly notice the difference in 1st low it's almost given it an extra gear in low range. I only drove around some paddocks and it was rolling as slowly as you like at idle, give it some juice and the revs rise but speed doesn't build up like before.
The 5.29's will make 1st low 59:1 an even better improvement.
The test will be on the weekend for the Pajero Challenge where the new low gearing will be put to the test.

Great news Frank... Wish i had one for the 3.5

Is it true that you are the only moded paj competing this weekend?

Good luck with the new gears and hope it all goes well.

Hi Frank,

sounds good. I sent an order message to Mark Hardman but i still have no answer. Could you please call him . Thanks.

see you wolf

Yeah Grant, mine is the only Paj in the modified section and there is an NM in the standard class.
Wolfe, I'll call Mark tomorrow I don't know why he is not answering his emails.

Bitsamissin wrote:Yeah Grant, mine is the only Paj in the modified section and there is an NM in the standard class.
Wolfe, I'll call Mark tomorrow I don't know why he is not answering his emails.

Frank,

I dont know if you saw my question in the other post, so I will ask again. Do you know if there will be another run of automatic sets in the near future. I might be looking for one this summer maybe.

Hi Frank,
That are good news that your car is fine again, good luck at competition.
Best regards from Madrid.

Doug, it's really up to Mark, if these sets sell relatively quickly and there is still interest I can't see why he wouldn't do another run.
At present if everyone honours their committment about 15 will be sold pretty much straight away.
Mark has taken a risk as his gears are only sold through an agent he does a big batch and is paid straight away by the agent who has the birden of the stock and trying to sell them.
He has done us a huge favour by agreeing to hold them in stock until they are sold as it is not his usual business practice. That is why they are a good price (no middle man).

Oh and thanks there Tom

I assume noone will be interested in doing an NL3.5L manual set ever.....

LJ

Im interested (definately will have) a set for my NL Auto......

Fingers crossed

I got mine yesterday
Now I've just gotta find some time to put them in....should be awesome

Good stuff, if you need any advice on the install just shout.

To all those that are waiting for a reply from Mark Hardman he will respond tonight or tomorrow.

Frank.

Bitsamissin wrote:Good stuff, if you need any advice on the install just shout.

I'm shouting any hints or pics or whatever you've got would be handy thanks Frank.
Shoot me an email if you like

Stuart

I'd get yourself a Gregory's it shows it all pretty well.
It's a totally standard tear down and rebuild as there are no modifications required for this t/case (as we found) the gears go directly in place of the standard gears (x3).
Pay attention to where the detent switches go (better to write them down on a piece of paper when your t/case is removed).
Check the input/output shaft bearings for wear and replace if need be.
The gearbox and t/case has to come out as an assembly then the t/case gearstick cover is removed to reveal the shifting lug on the main selector rail. This is held on by a pin which has to be punched out (don't let it fall into the case) then the gearbox-t/case joining bolts are removed and the t/case can be slid away from the gearbox.
The input gear will also need to have the spring washer and snap ring used from your old input gear.

cool, thanks for that Frank.

Not sure when I'll get around to putting them in, got stuff on for the next few weekends... Easter Holidays are coming up though, I'll definately have time to get 'em in then, I'll be able to test them out too

Well, I finally got the gears put in last week and tested them out yesterday afternoon. They're awesome its just like Frank said its like you have an extra gear in low range. I can't wait to try them out properly on the next club trip

Great stuff, twin lockers, 2.85 t/case, s/l, b/l, sliders, 35"s and you will surprise a lot of people.
No probs with the install ??
I would drive it around for about 1000K's and then drop the t/case oil just to check for any nasties.
Good news the more Jabbers running around with these sorts of mods the better I reckon

I ended up getting the gears put in at a gearbox place cuz I was a bit pushed for time and didn't want to stuff anything up, and not have a car for longer than I needed to. I took the gearbox out and put it back in myself (with help) and that was a PITA, I can see why they charge an extra $350 to do it. I'm glad I had the body lift though, it would've been harder without the extra clearance.

Hi Frank,

I got the gears yesterday. Thanks very much for your help so far. Today I started assembling/reassembling my spare T-case gear. I realised that the origianl input gear is also one with the bigger diameter (its from 1988 Automatik L040 2.5TD). I gues that all the automatic gears have the bigger diameter including those from the 2.5 TD engine. But this is no problem cause with an exchange of the input gear it will be converted to a gearbox fitting a 5 speed. The fork seems to be bit close to input gear so I removed some material there. Even so the distance betwen fork and wheel is very smal (1mm perhaps).
When I checked seelings, bearings, an the gears some questions came up:
What is the effort of the supportwheel asssembled with the input wheel ? My gearbox has no such wheel. Do I need it ? The Original output gear has two small chanels on side the new gears dont´t have this feature. What is it need for?
When I checked bearings I realised the most of them are good. Only the bearing of the outputaxle shows quite al lot of space. Is that also your expeariiance? I doubt that this one is defect cause as far as I know bearings with bigger tolerances are use to compare lengt when the temperatures are rising.
I hope to you can give me some advise

wolfe

Hi Wolfe, that is good news.
Yes there is a difference between auto & 5sp input gears, the auto output shaft is a much bigger diameter. If your converting to a 5sp then there is no issue.
The sub gear or backlash eliminator is not absolutely critical early t/cases did not have this fitted. There is some confusion as to what these things actually do we had imformation from Japan suggesting that they keep tension between the input and idler gears which prevents slop and any gear rattling. It is also supposed to suppress any backlash through the t/case particularly in a 5sp version.
It is up to you if you want to fit this to your input gear as there is no hard evidence one way or the other to suggest it is a critical item but I guess Mitsu wouldn't fit them for no reason. We decided to offer them in the kit anyway but you will need the snap ring/spacer/spring washer to install.
Yes I think 1mm clearance from low gear to selector fork is ok we did the two t/cases for the US guys with about that clearance when in low range.
I'm not sure about the grooves you refer to from your original output gear (I assume your refering to the idler gear) they could simply be machine indexing marks ??
The output shaft bearing condition will probably depend on how much shaft end float there was. If it is set up correctly there should only be 0.1mm movement maximum. The input shaft bearing should only be 0.06mm play any more then these bearings should be replaced. When we have assembled t/cases we replace these 2 bearings as standard.
Hope this helps.

Frank.

Hi Frank,

Thanks for your advice. I´ll order the missing parts and old bearings on monday. Hope they have all things in stock.

wolfe

Hallo Mark, hallo Frank

Yesterday I tried to assemble the gearset. First of all I wanted to assemble the supportwheel-version. So I had to order the additional parts. The rings are not available as standard spareparts in germany. At mitsubishi i was told that it could last 3-4 weeks. (Fore that reason it would be good to get the 3 parts with the set.)
So what to do? At home I checked the 3 T-case gears and realy the one
I bought last weekend had the feature. I decided to reasemble this gear to get the small parts.
Then I assembled the input gear and main axle (upper one). Inputgear was no problem but the mainaxle. The reason is that the diameter of the housing fitting the 2 second (midle) bearing has a diameter of exactly 100mm. The outputgear has a diameter of 101mm. So you can´t assemble the axle with the output gear out side the housing and fix the hole unit.
I tried to bring in the outputgear an the syncroniser in the housing first and putting the rest of the axle from outside. But this way I cant assemble the small ring to get synchroniser an outputwheel fixed of the axle.

What can I do?

1. Milling a bigger hole in the housing and using a bearing with a bigger outside diameter (bigger than 101mm)
2. reducing the diameter of the output gear to 99,8mm
3. using a distancering instead of the original part (snapring) which is only used to prevent wheels from axial travel of the mainshaft.

What should I do? Didn´t you have those problems? I guess the manual t-case gears you had where a bit different. Frank you spoke about a V5MT1. Mine is a V5MT21-2 . Maybe the V5MT1 had a bigger bearing in the midlel of the mainshaft. What´s the maximum diameter of this gear. I couldn´t imagine that you ingnored the smaler hole in the housing. cause in a very early mail from Frank he said that the housing diameter sets the maximum diameter of the gear.

I hope you can give me some advice

regards wolf

Yes Wolfe we did discover some of the early cases only have the 100mm bearing size the vast majority have 103mm so the 101mm input gear will fit through. Unfortunately we could only achieve a 101 mm size (originally it was 102mm).
Do not machine the input gear as you will loose the case hardening.
What we did with one early t/case was to assemble the rear of the mainshaft and insert this through the case then slip the input gear onto the shaft and insert the snap ring to lock it on. It was a bit of mucking around and took about 30mins with the two of us.
You could bore out the centre hole to 101.5mm and chase a larger bearing through. Either method will be ok.
We just don't know why some of the early case have the smaller bearing (there is no part no correlation).
Yes I cannot get the spring washers or snap rings from Mitsu here either otherwise we would supply them (they are only a few $ each) they have no stock in Japan either ????
So we decided to supply the sub gear anyway as they were manufactured with the set. A t/case with the sub gear can use the spring washer/snap ring with the 2.85 sub gear. But a t/case not fitted with it there maybe a problem to find the parts to install it correctly. We found that all super select t/cases have the sub gear but some early cases do and some do not.
Let me know if you need anymore imfo.

Frank.

Hi Frank,

what kind of gear you are talking about? 5-speed, 5-speed with superselect auto or automatic with superselect. I cant see a chance to get the springring fixed cause there ist only a distanze of 2-3 mm with the outputgear moved to the housing and the inputgear allready assembled. An asembly of the inputgear after the output gear is imposible.

wolfe

It was Lloyd Swartz's 3.0 V6 non super select auto.
I will get Barry to post the exact details for you but I helped him with this part maybe the 5sp cannot be done this way ??
Also Lloyd had a problem with his rear tailshaft (severe vibration) and it chewed out the rear output shaft bearing as a result the oil leaked out and it destroyed the t/case.
Luckily the 2.85 gears were ok and his mechanic assembled them into another t/case. He had the same problem and managed to assemble them the way Barry did (passing mainshaft through housing first then sliding on input gear and clipping on the snap ring).

Frank.

Hi Frank,

I´m just back home from a first test. Fiinaly I milled a bigger hole with 104mm to assemble the gear. The results in L4 are very good. The seams to be as low as a Unimog. When going down a steep decent there is no stress the gear does it all. A bit disapointing is the noise of the gear. Especially in 4H or 2H mode. I hope it will improve by the time.

wolfe

I have the gears to, but my PTO won't fit anymore, any sugestion's???
New gear's in the PTO maybe? Price?
If I make a spacer on the PTO it can fit, but the gear's is not an exact fit and it will make noise, would it last?



I love my PTO winch, is the 2.85 gears worth it

Hmmmm thats a tricky one.
If you make a spacer the gears are not compatible anyway the existing PTO gear is designed to mesh with the 1.944:1 idler gear. You will destroy both the 2.85 idler gear and PTO drive gear. The 2.85 idler gear is larger than the old one.
You have 3 choices :-
- not run the 2.85 gears
- run the 2.85 gears and not the PTO
- run the 2.85 gears and have a custom PTO drive gear cut to mesh with the 2.85 idler gear and use a spacer to mount.

Hi Nitteberg,

do you have a photo of the PTO. I only know that this equipement should exist but I never saw one. I also had the idear to to build a caustom made PTO with one of the old gears. But they don´t fit to 2.85 gears. But I can tell you it´s worth to assemble the 2.85 gears. It´s such a difference.

wolfe

Pictures here

http://home.no.net/niva/winch.htm

Finelly my PTO is working, with new gears

http://www.offroad.no/snitz/topic.asp?T ... hichpage=2