Outer Limits 4x4 Board

From the National Code of Practice NCOP11 Section LS Suspension and steering 3 Feb 2006 page 63 as used by Vic Roads

Body Blocks
Body blocks between the vehicle body and the chassis must comply with the following:

Material must be of similar strength and durability as the original components;

All assemblies and piping that spans between the body and the chassis must be suitable for the increased distance;

The increase in height from these blocks must be less than 51mm.

Reading this your blocks should be similar to the original body rubber, not that you would use anything as compressable as the standard rubber.

Victorians unite and embrace the use of engineering plastics.

I have heard from a lot of sources recently the poly blocks weren't permitted in Victoria, this is false information spread by some who may not have read the current codes (understandable) or others who wish to impose their preferences as law.

and here's the link

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... _ncop.aspx

As you know I am one who has purchased your kit and had it knocked back by an Engineer here in Victoria. You seem to be making the assumption that the NCOP is stating that the body lift blocks can have similar properties to the body rubbers where the Engineer is working on the fact that the blocks need to have similar properties to the chassis and the rubbers are still used to do their original job which is not to support the body, that is the job of the chassis. My Engineer is very understanding of what I am trying to achieve with my build and is allowing all sorts of things that others have knocked back but he only wants to see solid alloy or steel body lift blocks. If you can prove to him that your blocks have similar properties then there is a possibility that they would be accepted and I would also be happy with the money I spent on your kit. Until that time I am required to use solid alloy or metal spacers even though I don't doubt that your blocks would work.

I'd actually just started posting the same interperetation.

I don't think anyone would claim you can make a 2" body block out of the same durometer rubber used to make the isolation rubber out of.

If that's not the case, then "similar material" must relate to the body/chassis.

I don't doubt your materials are sound, only that there is a sound alternative interperetation as to why they aren't allowed under the NCOP.

The NCOP is still only a guideline and where state regs are tougher than the NCOP, you'll be stuck with the state regs for the near future. You QLD'ers would have a field day if you can apply all the NCOP stuff to your builds up there.

Steve.

in regards to bodylifts, thou slightly of topic, is there any engineer out there in Victoria that will engineer bodylift on my 07 Hilux 4x4?

YES, it has airbags, but as a toyota mechanic I know how they work, and they are not impact sensors which alot of the earlier airbag equipped vehicles had. Impact sensors and bodylifts are a definite no go.

BUT.....

The new vehicles such as the hilux's use a decelration sensor, thus it works by sensing the decelration rate in a vehicle, thus warping a coil inside the sensor, thus changing it into an electrical signal which activates the airbag system.

This deceleration sensor is NOT affected by a bodylift installation. Ive done my homework on it, even chased up people in England that bodylift new hilux's over there and they all agree.

WHY is it that no engineer in victoria will accept the fact that a bodylift will NOT affect the deployment of these airbags in newer vehicles?

I keep getting knocked back everytime I ring one to inquire, shits me to tears.

any advice????

Just put one in.. if u get done for it, its not that much work to take it out really..

I know thats the bad way of putting it but yeah, Im not saying go out and put 54" tyres on and wait till you get done for it, but a hilux with a 2" body lift doesn't exactly stand out of the traffic.

Yeah Thanks Rhysta, Im just worried that a new shape one with a bodylift will.

my mate says he's seen one driving round once, with really bright whist blocks in it.

Ive also heard from a foruby shop that some toyota dealer sold 2 new hilux's in gippsland to some bloke for his business and they fitted a 3 inch suspension lift and 2 inch body lift at "the dealership" !

I find it hard to beleive as there would be all sort of legal problems with toyota in case of an accident, but Id just like to get it done and engineered for that little bit of extra peace of mind.

I know of a few SR5 Hilux's that were bought as lease cars for a company from Toyota and when strate to ARB for 2" suspension, bars, canopies etc before they were delivered.. So it could happen..

Rhysta wrote:Just put one in.. if u get done for it, its not that much work to take it out really..

I know thats the bad way of putting it but yeah, Im not saying go out and put 54" tyres on and wait till you get done for it, but a hilux with a 2" body lift doesn't exactly stand out of the traffic.

yeah...never mind having a prang.........insurance might have something to say......and forget about tac....

Rhysta wrote:I know of a few SR5 Hilux's that were bought as lease cars for a company from Toyota and when strate to ARB for 2" suspension, bars, canopies etc before they were delivered.. So it could happen..

These are all either not subject to vicroads approval (canopy) or manufactured in accrodance with the relevant ADR/vicroads approval. bullbar/suspension lift.

Body lift is a totally different ball game on airbag equipped vehicles.

Steve.

From the information I have gained from Vic Roads over the last couple of days, I am chasing this as a matter of importance as I have sold a few kits into Vic and want to ensure they will be approved, is that a 50mm Body Lift by itself does not need to be approved. But together with any other lift does.

The people I have spoken to in Vehicle Standards have given me differing information so I am seeking clarification, unfortunately one referred me to 'my' mechanic so I requested that they should be the one defining what they will/won't accept. The chase continues.

I shall be requesting to communicate directly with their engineering staff to determine what safety facters etc they use in calculations to ensure that what I may provide is well and truely strong enough. So far a safety factor of 100 is close to what I'm coming out with.

Greg

as someone who has delt with vicroads 'CHIEFS' for a few years now all i can say is good luck. you are much better off contacting a vic-roads approved engineer. angelo or dr scott won't give you the time of day.

Should be made from steel or ally.

Bazzle

Just on NCOP - what everyone has been waiting for

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showthre ... post189385

I have been speaking to 3 different engineers. They all told me the same thing about lifting a 4wd and getting a certificate.

It CANT be done, with all the new laws in regards to 4wd's.

A raised 4wd can NOT pass the swerve test, and it has also been proven that NEW 4wd's cant pass the swerve test.

That is Australia wide.

As one bloke said "You can get insurance with out the certificate, but the law has a different opinion plus they can give you a fine with a Bloody Yellow sticker.

Now "A raised 4wd can NOT pass the swerve test" - thats a pretty broad statement isnt it?? isnt every rig individual??

joeblow wrote:

Rhysta wrote:Just put one in.. if u get done for it, its not that much work to take it out really..

I know thats the bad way of putting it but yeah, Im not saying go out and put 54" tyres on and wait till you get done for it, but a hilux with a 2" body lift doesn't exactly stand out of the traffic.

yeah...never mind having a prang.........insurance might have something to say......and forget about tac....

Insurance has to deem the body lift "at fault" for the accident and Tac is paid with your rego

You WILL get paid by TAC if you crash with a 2" body lift

Yep, the TAC doesnt give a stuff as long as your rego is paid. They fix you up and dont care who was at fault.

I got hit by a car in May and knocked off my motorbike.

TAC covered the ambo ride, all medical expenses and no questions were asked about what mods the bike had.

They make it very clear that they don't care who/what was at fault.

bogged wrote:Now "A raised 4wd can NOT pass the swerve test" - thats a pretty broad statement isnt it?? isnt every rig individual??

What is this "swerve test" of which they speak, and how has it changed from the old "swerve test"?

I had my Paj engineered in SA. The "swerve test" was performed on the same race track that Mitsubishi (used to) use to perform all their "swerve tests", and the cones were even put on the same marks. An employee of the race track witnessed the tests, so it wasn't just the engineer who decided that it "passed".

So, my "raised 4wd", with 2" body lift, similar suspension lift and 33" tyres passed the same "swerve test" which Mitsubishi have been using to test all their vehicles for ADR compliance.

I'd say that either some engineers are not interested in engineering 4wds, or somebody has mis-interpreted a comment, or somebody is purely talking out of their @rse.

-Scott- wrote:I'd say that either some engineers are not interested in engineering 4wds, or somebody has mis-interpreted a comment, or somebody is purely talking out of their @rse.

Most Vic engineers arent interested anymore. You can call a dozen off the list and none will even discuss with you. Thats the basis of it. But there are some that still do basics...
I think they are all waiting for NCOP - BUT most stopped talkin to 4wders 12mths ago...
NFI wats going on.