Outer Limits 4x4 Board

having converted my defender to a part time 4wd and having people frequently ask about the conversion and having the land rover crew bag part time conversions .realizing that some cruisers have full time 4wd and part time conversion are a very popular mod with jeeps as well i thought its time for a poll(daily driver 4x4)

why would you want fulltime 4wd unless you are driving off road all the time? its just one more thing the engines gotta power... its not like you need the extra traction on road

After 2 high performance front wheel drive road cars I can tell you exactly why I drive a full time 4WD (STi WRX) It's as fast and sticky on a wet road than a front wheel drive in the dry.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:After 2 high performance front wheel drive road cars I can tell you exactly why I drive a full time 4WD (STi WRX) It's as fast and sticky on a wet road than a front wheel drive in the dry.

Steve.

Fast and Sticky.

2 things full time 4WD's are not.

AWD's, well, that's a whole other kettle of fish

Precisely what is the question? Is it "which do you prefer?" or "what do you have?" I have both - what should I vote?

FWIW - I use them all. 2wd most of the time on-road, "full time" 4wd occasionally in wet weather or on high speed dirt, rarely use "part time" 4wd (locked centre diff) in high range, but centre diff locks automatically in low range.

I have a part time GQ and a full time cruiser... I've never had a direct comparison between the two vehicles (ones diesel, ones petrol... ones stock, ones 'my toy' and so on and so forth)

I'm not sure what the driving difference is in the same vehicle, but the key thing I think of is less wear and tear on the drive train because, frankly, you're only using half of it most of the time with a part time.

Oh and Edit: You can drive a part time out if you blow a front diff/something else front drive train related... with a full time you're going to have fun.

-Scott- wrote:
FWIW - I use them all. 2wd most of the time on-road, "full time" 4wd occasionally in wet weather or on high speed dirt, rarely use "part time" 4wd (locked centre diff) in high range, but centre diff locks automatically in low range.

gotta love super select

Froon wrote:Oh and Edit: You can drive a part time out if you blow a front diff/something else front drive train related... with a full time you're going to have fun.

Yep, had my rear go and had to drive home using the front

RockyF75 wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:After 2 high performance front wheel drive road cars I can tell you exactly why I drive a full time 4WD (STi WRX) It's as fast and sticky on a wet road than a front wheel drive in the dry.

Steve.

Fast and Sticky.

2 things full time 4WD's are not.

AWD's, well, that's a whole other kettle of fish

My STI is more of a "4WD" than a 44" tyred car with open diffs - it runs three tight LSD's stock.

I (seriously) don't know what the difference is between a 4WD and an AWD. I know that most people think an AWD doesn't have a low range, but that's not relevant to this discussion.

I'm not actually crazy about the handling of constant 4WD cars (or 4WD's) but they do improve traction and drivability, especially in the wet and in cars with a large range of loaded/unloaded mass.

Steve.

I put a part time kit in my Cruiser and I regretted it. I find it safer on the road with a full time kit especialy when it is wet. Also when I was parking the caravan on grass, part time mean't I had to get out and turn the hubs every time I wanted to park otherwise it would be spinning.

With a Cruiser you get vibrations when you lift it too high. At this point you need to choose between a part time kit and a double cardin shaft mod.

Whenever driving onto a dirt road it is obviously a lot safer with the full time 4WD.

I know a lot of people don't drive on dirt roads and don't need to park a caravan and don't drive when it is wet.

Shane

4WD Stuff wrote:I know a lot of people don't drive on dirt roads and don't need to park a caravan and don't drive when it is wet.

And don't need 4wd/awd.

Our Prado has the constant 4wd and to be honest I like it. Its great in the wet and imo there is a difference to on road handling between the two.

booflux wrote:Our Prado has the constant 4wd and to be honest I like it. Its great in the wet and imo there is a difference to on road handling between the two.

Come to think of it, you can plant your foot coming out of a corner harder and faster and tighter in the dry without losing traction. No more wheel spin.

Shane

4WD Stuff wrote: No more wheel spin.

wheres the fun in that?

4WD Stuff wrote:

booflux wrote:Our Prado has the constant 4wd and to be honest I like it. Its great in the wet and imo there is a difference to on road handling between the two.

Come to think of it, you can plant your foot coming out of a corner harder and faster and tighter in the dry without losing traction. No more wheel spin.

Shane

Not true at all, a 2WD car and a 4WD car (with an open centre diff) will both spin one tyre only under hard acceleration/cornering. I've had it happen in an 80 series.

Steve.

I like full time.
Good for high speed work on dirt tracks and in the wet.
I have tried with the front shaft removed in the wet and found that on corners, when I plant it the back wheels spin and slide out sideways.
on same corner in full time I sometimes get a slight loss of grip on the front wheel however i do not find myself spinning out in the arse like in 2wd

Gwagensteve wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote:

booflux wrote:Our Prado has the constant 4wd and to be honest I like it. Its great in the wet and imo there is a difference to on road handling between the two.

Come to think of it, you can plant your foot coming out of a corner harder and faster and tighter in the dry without losing traction. No more wheel spin.

Shane

Not true at all, a 2WD car and a 4WD car (with an open centre diff) will both spin one tyre only under hard acceleration/cornering. I've had it happen in an 80 series.

Steve.

You are kidding me right. Under the same conditions it takes a lot more right foot and steering lock to lose traction with an all wheel drive vehicle.

My Jeep now has a tight limited slip which adds to the stability.

Shane

Not at all. 2nd gear, right hand corner, highish cornering speed/acceleration - front right hand wheel spun.

With open diffs all round, you're still only driving one wheel if there's a large difference in traction between one and the other three- you only have to unweight a wheel and it can easily be a front wheel on cornering loads.

Steve.

I suppose it depends on your suspension setup. Maybe you need new shocks or something.

In my Jeep Grande cherokee. If I plant it in the wet while cornering I still won't lose grip while running tyres that are nearly slicks. I do get some squeeling caused by the tight limited slip though. Pretend spinnies. This is mainly for very tight turns though.

Gwagensteve wrote:Not at all. 2nd gear, right hand corner, highish cornering speed/acceleration - front right hand wheel spun.

With open diffs all round, you're still only driving one wheel if there's a large difference in traction between one and the other three- you only have to unweight a wheel and it can easily be a front wheel on cornering loads.

Steve.

Nope wrong, with the centre differential in place it still distributes drive the the wheels that aren't slipping

You simply wont know how much difference it makes, till you driven a car with SOLID drive to 1 axle only, then you'll see how much your differential works, even if only a single spinner

defmec wrote:having the land rover crew bag part time conversions .

With good reason

Part time 4wd got my vote. Cant see the point in wearing out another diff, unis, bearings, cv's ect around town. I Fitted a part time kit to my 80 and it was one of the best mods i have done, at least if i ever break something i can eliminate drive to the front end. I powered around a corner in the wet when it was constant 4x4 to find its limit, and yep.....a heap of understeer as you would expect with a non-viscous center diff. If I took off to hard front wheels would always chirp. For normal daily wet and dry driving, i hav'nt noticed a real differences in handling. But i do drive it like a 4wd not a sports car.

But when it comes to sports and high performance cars give me an All wheel drive over a fwd or rwd any day!

vSAHARAx wrote:For normal day to day wet and dry driving have not noticed a real differences in handling going from constant 4wd to part-time. But a do drive it like a 4wd not a sports car.

i think this is where the difference is in a lot of cases. i drive a van for a living. i drive a rear wheel drive 4wd as a daily. i often have access to a front wheel drive sedan and a soft roader "4wd"(what i class as an AWD)

2 years ago when i started my job i had only driven the afore mentioned FWD sedan. i used to(and still do) drive this vehicle very hard. when i started driving the van i began by driving it in the same way. i was somewhat less mature in those days so was abit of a revhead. 6 months later i got my first 4wd, a RWD vehicle. i went around a round about and came out facing the wrong direction in the wet in the first week. 6 months later again i began to drive the AWD regularly.


now if i was to take the same trip on each vehicle, i will complete the trip first in the AWD, then the FWD, then the RWD, then the van. if i do the same trip in the wet, ill get there first in the AWD, then the RWD, then the FWD, then the van. at the end of the day its a matter of a minute or so between the first and the last vehicle. its also a matter of how you drive it.

since i have had my 4wd(my 2nd now) i have only once lost control on the road, because it was at that moment on the round about that i grew up abit and realised that different vehicles react differently. to those that are claiming that you loose control with only front or rear wheel drive, i call bullshit! if you drive to the conditions and drive the vehicle how it should be driven, you dont loose control. [/b]

Full time 4wd is way better.
The only economy loss is churning the oil in the front diff, how much work this takes no-one has quantified.

As for not making a difference, you've gotta be seriously underpowered to not notice.
Even my work car which puts about 40kw to the ground knows the difference.

There are major traction and safety advantages to fulltime 4wd over part time. Especially when you're constantly going between sections of excellent traction (like tarseal) and terrible traction (tarseal with snow and ice on it).

Not to mention far less track damage on tight stuff where you need all four wheels driving but don't need them locked up and scuffing their way around the corner.

Bet the full time 80 Series Cruiser won't do donuts as well as my GU 4.2 Turbo Patrol though

philhod wrote:Bet the full time 80 Series Cruiser won't do donuts as well as my GU 4.2 Turbo Patrol though

While the GU is doing doughnuts the factory turbo Cruiser is running rings around the GU.

Gwagensteve wrote:Not at all. 2nd gear, right hand corner, highish cornering speed/acceleration - front right hand wheel spun.

With open diffs all round, you're still only driving one wheel if there's a large difference in traction between one and the other three- you only have to unweight a wheel and it can easily be a front wheel on cornering loads.

Steve.

Depends on suspension and vehicle dynamics. My 110 will understeer long before it lifts a wheel.

I have 1x Full time and 2x part time 4x4s at the moment (anyone want a cheap Nissan Terrano???). The FT vehicle has much better handling and traction, especially on the wet roads we tend to have here at the moment.

As Dougal said - no difference to economy. Anyone who says otherwise probably thinks hiclones give better economy too.

Hopefully someone can explain to me why my front tyres seem to chirp on full lock with my Jeep Grand Cherokee. (Runs rings around GU and 80 Series )

I took my front tail shaft out and it still did it. I am thinking it is because of the tight limited slip combined with a very tight turning circle.

I thought the Nissan limited slips were tight but they must have nothing on the Jeep or is it because of the different front steering design.

Sorry to go off topic.
Shane

Full timers are losing badly.

Rangie's suffer from back lash. Going part time reduces this.
My Cruiser had bad back lash. I was told that going part time reduced this problem or even solve it. What I should have done was shimmed it up but I didn't know I could at the time.

Back lash is a negative for full timers.

Positive for part time is the 2WD challenge when off road.

Shane