Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Money tree has wilted - only enough left for one or the other:

whats the better option for the zook? (Note: zook is going to be used on-road as much as off-road)

a set of the lockrites ?
http://www.locktup4x4.com.au/product/cb ... 8b601.aspx

or TT 6.5 gears ?
http://www.locktup4x4.com.au/product/f9 ... c5406.aspx

Or (if i dont wanna buy beer for 12 months) a front lockrite, and 6.5 gears (so that when the hubs are unlocked, the locker doesnt affect the drive?)

Those 2 things sorta go together I got my gears and the welded the rear the same time

hmmm, but i only got dosh for one or the other... so, gears first?

are u going bigger tyres?

if not for a bit then go for the locker.

if so gears and weld the rear up later maybe.

nicbeer wrote:are u going bigger tyres?

if not for a bit then go for the locker.

if so gears and weld the rear up later maybe.

thanks nic - plan is 31's very soon, and 33's in the future.

i am leaning towards gears (no lockers yet).

I only wanted gears because i was going to go bigger in future(was 27" then.. Now 33"), and i do alot of rock climbs.

go the gears because when you get the bigger wheels you will struggle to drive it with out gears and kill your clutch.

then save up for lockers

where do u play?

higher speed or technical slow?

i'd go the gears for now if u are planning 31s but u can run 31s ok on std setup depending on the terrain. i do on mine but i do have the NT diff gears and the 16b to push them along. and thats on some steep declines,ascends.

Nic

cjdeane10 wrote:

nicbeer wrote:are u going bigger tyres?

if not for a bit then go for the locker.

if so gears and weld the rear up later maybe.

thanks nic - plan is 31's very soon, and 33's in the future.

i am leaning towards gears (no lockers yet).

if your definetly getting tyres soon (ie now) then i'd go gears first.
no point having big tyres & lockers if you've got no gearing to push em.

if tyres are a bit later, go lockers first.

go the gears...

if your sig is up to date, you are already on 235's (which i assume is 235/75/15) which is about 28"... this has already messed up your gearing and will be affecting your car's ability to crawl...

there are cheaper options available for gears and lockers that you could also consider.

greg wrote:go the gears...

X2! I know how crap it can be with lockers, bigger rubber and NO GEARS!

GET THE GEARS!

Pez

yeh see cj dean i dont hav lockers yet or gears but im on 30 not 31 but yeh wen i do go in sand in 4h i cant get out of 1st gear as it to hard for it too go u go 2nd and is just pretty juch about to conk out so i recon there gears.....

brodie

Gears are what you need if you have / are fitting larger tyres BUT don't expect any radical improvement offroad until you fit a locker or two.
Gears will just mean you go slower until you get stuck!
Jas.

There's a sort of case that either alone might actually hurt your off road performance until you get the other.

Adding traction with a locker (or worse, two) will mean the gearing problem will get MUCH bigger because the added traction loads the engine much harder, because there's no wheelspin to keep the engine turning over.

If you add gears, especially 6.5's with small tyres, you'll find that you will have about 3 gears below your existing 1st low, ( 4th low will be taller than your existing 1st low, but your new low 3rd will be lower than your current low 1st) great, but if you have no lockers it can be hard to get enough momentum to "skip" the car over obstacles.

Personally, I'd go the gears first. Your better off getting good gears and buy them once rather than buying cheap lockers, having no gears, and wishing later on you'd bought airlockers or HD front axles.

Do it once, do it properly.
Steve.

Get the gears now while the exchange rate is good, lockright later.

i went bigger tyres ages ago with open diffs and it was ok. But since i welded the rear it sux. ive even done the 1ltr t/case and 3.9 diff gears. Its better but i still have to ride the clutch alot on very steep or difficult tracks.

If i was to do it again i would have done the gears first up and not bothered with changing the diff gears.

My 2c



B4T

Gwagensteve wrote:
Do it once, do it properly.
Steve.

235's are already (about) 10% out on the speedo - bigger tyres will make it worse.

yeah, the plan is to spend the dosh on gears now (as 31's will be very soon - nearly convinced a mate from work to gimme his!)

lockers may have to wait...

as for terrain - a fair bit of slow crawling (mud/rocks), but i am on the beach alot too...

Gears, Gears and more Gears

No point having traction without having enough torque to make use of it

i did a 1ltr case swap, with front locker and 32's on a 1.3. wasn't to bad, but it's down to how u wheel it. Im thinking my NT diffs might be diff to your WT tho.. In the mud down here i need to swap to 4h somtimes to really dig out! then L4 once i shift all the crap out....... ANYWAY my clapped out 1.3 can still hold 2nd in a hole with 3 wheels driving. so IMO locker

Just make sure that when you buy t he gears you install them straight away, otherwise they will just sit there in boxes for a year taking up space.....

just cruizin' wrote:Gears, Gears and more Gears

No point having traction without having enough torque to make use of it

what traction .. torque is only effective if the tyres have grip .. one or two wheels in the air .. and your stuck.

Honeslty .. I would save the $$ on the tyres and get the gears and a locker .. you will get further with that than you will on unlocked with bigger tyres ...

There are many tracks I could idle along in low (no front dhsaft) I could drive locked in 2wd with 32's (and no gears when mine went boom) that I previously struggled on with gears (only 4.16s granted) unlocked in 4wd ..

love_mud wrote:what traction .. torque is only effective if the tyres have grip .. one or two wheels in the air .. and your stuck.

love_mud wrote:Honeslty .. I would save the $$ on the tyres and get the gears and a locker .. you will get further with that than you will on unlocked with bigger tyres ....

There's a contradiction for you, you need traction but don't worry about good tyres.

What's the difference having wheels spinning on a surface as to in the air.

I've been stuck before purely because the surface I was on didn't allow me to ride the clutch and keep traction whilst still having enough revs not to stall.

Yes he has AT's but for the type of driving he has mentioned that he intends doing they aren't going to go to far.

yes lockers are a big help but a good line selection will unlocked vehicles go a long way. Lockers just make you lazy, rather then concentrate on getting the right line you just point it where you want to go

just cruizin' wrote:

love_mud wrote:what traction .. torque is only effective if the tyres have grip .. one or two wheels in the air .. and your stuck.

love_mud wrote:Honeslty .. I would save the $$ on the tyres and get the gears and a locker .. you will get further with that than you will on unlocked with bigger tyres ....

There's a contradiction for you, you need traction but don't worry about good tyres.

What's the difference having wheels spinning on a surface as to in the air.

I've been stuck before purely because the surface I was on didn't allow me to ride the clutch and keep traction whilst still having enough revs not to stall.

Yes he has AT's but for the type of driving he has mentioned that he intends doing they aren't going to go to far.

yes lockers are a big help but a good line selection will unlocked vehicles go a long way. Lockers just make you lazy, rather then concentrate on getting the right line you just point it where you want to go

How is that a contradiction ?
If your tyres are not on the ground regardless of the tread configuration .. you have no grip .. and one small mild AT tyre reciving full engine power with the full weight of the car resting on it will have more chance of getting you moving than one aggressive MT reciveing none.
Picking a good line and staying on a good line are two very different things when the only option you have is to mash the throttle and hope momentum will carry you through.
Having locked diffs gives you options as far as control, you can pick a line and actually drive it .. rather than be a pin ball.


Your last line says it all ...

you just point it where you want to go

.. and generally this is true .. the bit about being lazy is BS. You can just do so many things so much easier.
If lockers are lazy, so are gears, bigger more aggressive tyres, winch's etc and anything else that improves your chances of make it to the end of the trail without getting yourself and your mates utterly knackerd from pushing you POS through all the things you cannot drive.



Lockers also allow you to "bump" objects far easier as they hit things and keep turing instantly trying to climb rather than stopping spining and sending all available power to the other wheel..

love_mud wrote:
Lockers also allow you to "bump" objects far easier as they hit things and keep turing instantly trying to climb rather than stopping spining and sending all available power to the other wheel..

thats the best thing about a locker, especially a front locker.
nothin more anoying than a lazy wheel..
i have got pretty much everything on my car bar the gears and i feel im not held back by not having them.
if i had someone that would swap my lockers for some gears id say NO.
so my first mod choice is and was lockers.
i think the only way a locker is not needed is if u got plenty of flex, that way the wheel is always on the ground

Sorry 11_evl, if you've had gears you'd never say that.

I've lost count the number of people who can't believe the difference once they're geared, and we had a few members go 4:1 then 6:1 as deeper gears became available. I've got a 4:1 case and never bothered putting it in my 1.0/660, I went straight for 6.5:1.

I'm a massive fan of autos offroad but with my gearing up near 130:1 I reckon my car is nearly as good to drive offroad as a good auto.

Also I think you're a bit on the wrong track saying flex is a substitute for a locker. That's true so long as the terrain is predominantly flat but with holes etc, and the surface has high traction.

Added flex can actually reduce capability if it means undriven wheels hook in under ledges/against banks etc.

I'm not having a go - you comments are true under certain circumstances, only that my experience is different.

Steve.

X2 Steve...

11_evl wrote: i have got pretty much everything on my car bar the gears and i feel im not held back by not having them.

Do you not have hills in QLD?

my vote, gears then locker.

i had a welded in before i got gears and it was a bitch to drive offroad as gearing wasnt low enough. Before i locked it, one tyre would spin before the engine conked out, but with a locker it was stalling alot.

GEARS THEN LOCKER

i have 4.88 and 33s on std transfer with 1600, the lowdown torque pulls me thru most stuff and yes i do give my clutch a hard time. all within reason.
yes we do have hills in qld, and plenty of rocks. a nice low car is almost useless on the tracks i drive

admittedly very soon when i do get gears ill be very happy but i dont think ill magically be able to drive more stuff. OR if i was to get the gears and go back to opens with my 33 simex i still would
NOT be anywhere near as capable as i am now.

cjdeane10 wrote:Money tree has wilted - only enough left for one or the other:

Water it, speak nicely to it and I've heard they like classical music.
Until it comes back to good health, live with what you have and then fit gears AND locker/s.
The arguments will go on forever over which is better/more practical.
My experience says that one without the other isn't really worth it.
Jas