Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey people,

Just trying to pick a few brains out there.

I'm looking at getting myself a SWB GQ, (the idea is to get a blizzard rhino body after uni is over) and throw in a skyline motor.

The thing i'm having some difficulty with is working out which engine and gearbox to go with.

Gq's came out with the under powered RB30 motor, which is the same block and what not as the RB25DET which is what i'm throwing in. But the gearbox that came with them was as useless as the engine that powered it.

So i have to go with something that has a little more weight to throw around. That would mean going with the 4.2lt TB42 gearbox.

I've spoken with a few places around that make adaptors for engine conversions and they all say that it would take about 7 months for them to make it, and more money then its worth. However i have a very strong feeling that this was just a palm off.

The thing i'm interested in, is that there is plenty of information out there saying that this has been done, but just not how its being done.

I know that the GU patrol came out with a RD30 motor, again it has the same block as the RB motor, but how strong is the gearbox and will it handle that sort of power?

I understand that the gearbox used with the larger 4.2lt engines is the same in the GQ. Being the TB42 and TD42. Is this the same as the ones used in the smaller RB30 and RD30 motors?

I already know that I'll be needing to change the ratios in the diffs. Not overly worried by that at the moment.

The other question I have for those of you that are still reading is, is it better to stay with the patrol gearbox, or should i try and get one out of the skyline as well, even though this will really effect how much off road use i can do.

This car will be used for some off roading, but nothing extreme.

So any answers, theories (about for i'm crazy) or usefull points.

Thanks for the help people.

Nelly

nellyb1 wrote:Hey people,

Just trying to pick a few brains out there.

I'm looking at getting myself a SWB GQ, (the idea is to get a blizzard rhino body after uni is over) and throw in a skyline motor.

The thing i'm having some difficulty with is working out which engine and gearbox to go with.

Gq's came out with the under powered RB30 motor, which is the same block and what not as the RB25DET which is what i'm throwing in. But the gearbox that came with them was as useless as the engine that powered it.

So i have to go with something that has a little more weight to throw around. That would mean going with the 4.2lt TB42 gearbox.

I've spoken with a few places around that make adaptors for engine conversions and they all say that it would take about 7 months for them to make it, and more money then its worth. However i have a very strong feeling that this was just a palm off.

The thing i'm interested in, is that there is plenty of information out there saying that this has been done, but just not how its being done.

I know that the GU patrol came out with a RD30 motor, again it has the same block as the RB motor, but how strong is the gearbox and will it handle that sort of power?

I understand that the gearbox used with the larger 4.2lt engines is the same in the GQ. Being the TB42 and TD42. Is this the same as the ones used in the smaller RB30 and RD30 motors?

I already know that I'll be needing to change the ratios in the diffs. Not overly worried by that at the moment.

The other question I have for those of you that are still reading is, is it better to stay with the patrol gearbox, or should i try and get one out of the skyline as well, even though this will really effect how much off road use i can do.

This car will be used for some off roading, but nothing extreme.

So any answers, theories (about for i'm crazy) or usefull points.

Thanks for the help people.

Nelly

hi mate,

rb and rd is same box.

bolt the skyline motor upto it just go easy on the gear changes.
they are not that bad.

JEs

Dude if you want a skyline you can buy them , why would you want to bastardise a good patrol . There are plenty of tough turbo RB30 patrols still running the standard box . What are you trying to achieve with the patrol if not to be used for 4wd .

yes do it!
more HP the better!

When you said RD30 in a GU. I am gussing you meant ZD30 (or as bogged calls it the handgrenade). Well they have the heavy box same as TD42, TB42 and TB45.

If your set on 500hp you will shit the gearbox, best off making an adaptor for the TD/TB box.

All the RB conversions so far I have seen have been mated to the RB30/RD28 boxes and dont last long at that power.

What are your plans for the SWB?

hmmm u may wanna research a bit more about these boxes

Did any of the SWB Gq's come with the 3L???
I thought they were all 4.2's, with the 3L being available in the poverty wagons.

personally with that sort of power id go for a manualised auto. clutches for 500 ponies arent great in skylines and silvias, if you then add the 3 tonnes of a patrol and take it offroad.......

You can do it with the TB42 manual trans but the clutch will be an issue, we just took a moldified 4Terrain out as it couldn't hold the torque we are making in a TB45 turbo. About 1450nM at 3500 rpm in 4th gear. Have just fitted a custom twin plate but at 3K for the clutch, and it is certainly more aggressive than the 4Terrain, you could probably get a good auto built.

Cheers

Joel

PGS 4WD wrote:You can do it with the TB42 manual trans but the clutch will be an issue, we just took a moldified 4Terrain out as it couldn't hold the torque we are making in a TB45 turbo. About 1450nM at 3500 rpm in 4th gear. Have just fitted a custom twin plate but at 3K for the clutch, and it is certainly more aggressive than the 4Terrain, you could probably get a good auto built.

Cheers

Joel

we are in the same boat!! can't get big enough clutchs. does anyone do a TD/TB to T700 adapter?? at least then you could build a box for reasonable $$ that can take big power. Funny thing is no-one is really blowing up tcases!! IMO they are much weaker than a np208 (alloy case) and the US guys reccon they are weak under big power.

I don't know about a t700, we broke the input shaft at 280 rwkW in our V6 turbo Suzi, A V8 one would be better but like a 4l60e they are limited to about 600 engine hp when well built, I went the 4L80e as they are good for 600 stock and can hold 1200 when built.

Cheers

Joel

I don't know about a t700, we broke the input shaft at 280 rwkW in our V6 turbo Suzi, A V8 one would be better but like a 4l60e they are limited to about 600 engine hp when well built, I went the 4L80e as they are good for 600 stock and can hold 1200 when built.

Cheers

Joel

Dude,

Go and check out www.patrol4x4.com in the GU section (is down for me at the moment) and find the post where someone has just replaced the RD28 engine in a GU with an RB25 and done some work to it. Nice conversion.

I guess you can drop the running gear out of a RB30 GQ wagon into a SWB, but might be cheaper to just look for a wagon that someone has already turboed.

Regards,
g@z.

the GU in that thread does not have 500hp, but it does show how easy the bolt in conversion is using the GQ RB/GU RD gearbox.

you better design your rear dolly bars , or you'll be on your roof on first take off.

PGS 4WD wrote:You can do it with the TB42 manual trans but the clutch will be an issue, we just took a moldified 4Terrain out as it couldn't hold the torque we are making in a TB45 turbo. About 1450nM at 3500 rpm in 4th gear. Have just fitted a custom twin plate but at 3K for the clutch, and it is certainly more aggressive than the 4Terrain, you could probably get a good auto built.

Cheers

Joel

Cheers Joel,

Yeh the auto option is always there, I know they can be great, and i know that they are easier to work around, but i just dont like it. I'd perfer to have big stick in my hand. well not like that, but you know what i mean. I wanna feel like i'm actually driving this big toy when i'm in it, not just steering a big wheel.

I've spoken to a guy a few days back, he reccomended a brass button clutch. I have to do my research on them. but by what he was telling me it should be fine. he said that he uses one in his common whore wagon and its got close to 700hp. it is a drag car tho.

g@z wrote:Dude,

Go and check out www.patrol4x4.com in the GU section (is down for me at the moment) and find the post where someone has just replaced the RD28 engine in a GU with an RB25 and done some work to it. Nice conversion.

I guess you can drop the running gear out of a RB30 GQ wagon into a SWB, but might be cheaper to just look for a wagon that someone has already turboed.

Regards,
g@z.

Hey mate,
yeh, i've been reading into this now for about 3 weeks. I've read up on that one fairly well, even found the mob that did the work for him. Sweet ride. Very Very clean cross over with the engines. it looks like its a standard mod.

I'm just a little worried that once you go and start bumping the power up that 3lt gearbox will just fall apart. But it is worth looking into.

if so, i'll jsut grab a rolled GU and strip it of parts that i need.

Cheers mate.

For those of you that have time and need to procastinate

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Niss ... _95522.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwFlfB7K ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v55UtXvS ... re=related

Thats the sort of thing i'm planning on.

Why i hear you ask.......

Because i can.

You will find most of the Arab patrols run a turbo TB48, not its little brother. I still find it hard to beleive a GQ does a GSXR1000 on a roll on either.

the GSXR would be around 800hp/tonne v's patrol even at 1000hp will only be around 450hp/tonne.

Standing 1/4 a standard gsxr should do low 10's and that is because of the slow take off so not to flip it. The GQ would need to be alot quicker to catch it, on the 1/4 maybe but roll on I doubt it.

GSXR will do around 300km top speed, good luck doin 300 in a patrol.

Im not nockin the idea mate but dont beleive home made vids. I would like to see you make the SWB but I would expect to pay around $2000 for a multi plate clutch to be reliable, puck clutches are harsh to drive and hard on the flywheel.

Build it, do dyno print out and show us what it can do.

I keep hearing brass buttons are harsh.....yet another internet myth, cushioned brass button is easy to drive, and in low range you can't even tell, why do people tend to bag out what they don't have?

g@z wrote:Dude,

Go and check out www.patrol4x4.com in the GU section (is down for me at the moment) .

Must be running a ZD30 engine?

nellyb1 wrote: Yeh the auto option is always there, I know they can be great, and i know that they are easier to work around, but i just dont like it. I'd perfer to have big stick in my hand. well not like that, but you know what i mean. I wanna feel like i'm actually driving this big toy when i'm in it, not just steering a big wheel.

With a good manual auto the only thing you don't have is a clutch. In effect it is a manual without a clutch, perfect!
It changes when you want etc etc. I suggest you drive one before you knock it. There is a reason so many big hp comp trucks are going auto. I love mine and I'll never go back to manual.

[/quote]

With a good manual auto the only thing you don't have is a clutch. In effect it is a manual without a clutch, perfect!
It changes when you want etc etc. I suggest you drive one before you knock it. There is a reason so many big hp comp trucks are going auto. I love mine and I'll never go back to manual.[/quote]

I'm not going to knock it too much until i do try it, I'm just not a fan of them really. I know that on some of them you need to be built like a tank to push down the pedal.

I'm just not a fan of autos. Thats all. Just dont swing that way baby,...yeh

nellyb1 wrote:

I'm not going to knock it too much until i do try it, I'm just not a fan of them really. I know that on some of them you need to be built like a tank to push down the pedal.[/quote]

Whats the auto got to do with the throttle.

NutterGQ wrote:I keep hearing brass buttons are harsh.....yet another internet myth, cushioned brass button is easy to drive, and in low range you can't even tell, why do people tend to bag out what they don't have?

I have driven a turbo'd GQ TD42 that goes pretty well. only around the 150rwkw mark and it can be a pain to drive smothly around town. When your getting up it. You can be smoothish with it and know full well it will bite.
But wants you want to do some fine movement. Like trying to park the thing. Its a pain.
They are either on or off. They dont like to be ridden.
I think I could live it though, just to have a clutch that will not slip.

turps wrote:

NutterGQ wrote:I keep hearing brass buttons are harsh.....yet another internet myth, cushioned brass button is easy to drive, and in low range you can't even tell, why do people tend to bag out what they don't have?

I have driven a turbo'd GQ TD42 that goes pretty well. only around the 150rwkw mark and it can be a pain to drive smothly around town. When your getting up it. You can be smoothish with it and know full well it will bite.
But wants you want to do some fine movement. Like trying to park the thing. Its a pain.
They are either on or off. They dont like to be ridden.
I think I could live it though, just to have a clutch that will not slip.

Simply not true anyone considering buying one your welcome to come ill take you for a drive to show you what its like, including parking. If you want or need one don't let the comments on the net put you off.




On another note and one I have looked at is the ford c4 as there is already belhousings to suit RB motors, and of course ford has transfer cases available too. I haven't looked too much into this but another clutch or 2 and i will be looking at auto options.

so to those people saying brass buttons are harsh have you ever actually used one?

i had one in my rx-7 and it was easy to drive not as easy as my td42 but you get used to it.. plus with more low down torque it would be easier rotarys dont no what torque is till about 4000rpm

i voted no because unless you want to do a mono down the freeway at 200kmph or 4wheel burnouts in 5th gear no brakes its a waste

but if you do.. mate a rb26 box (GTR) with it and a brass button clutch.. you can always get a stronger built GTR box aswell to take more abuse that way you should be able to make use of cheaper jap parts aswell.. but provided you dont flat change it in .0001 second the boxes should hold up..

standard gtr box's can take 9sec 1/4miles

Soo, Whats wrong with a turbo tb42/45?

brock wrote:Soo, Whats wrong with a turbo tb42/45?

I was thinkin a 500hp shorty would be shit to drive myself. maybe in a longy, but ..... anyway...