Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi all just wondering if anyone has had a problem with Kings coil springs sagging before. I have a GU patrol with 7" Kings Coil Springs I put in 1 year ago. I jacked the car up by the bullbar with my high lift jack the other day, and I noticed the front coils dropped right down almost falling out. When I first put my new coils in, with the shocks at full extension the coils where just loose but firm in position. Now with shocks at full extension the coils drop down, passanger front 50mm gap from top of coil to top hat, and drivers side front about 35mm gap. Is this a commen thing, and if so would coil spacers be the best fix.

i have a GQ that i just took the springs out of. were supposedly not that old, and were apparantly a 2 inch or so lift. they were a full 30mm lower in the rear than the front? the front wern't too bad, but the rears were stuffed. Have heard other stories of King Springs aswell. not sure if i would buy them again. now running dobbinson

It is pretty normal for lifted kings coils. You just hope they sag evenly. I don't know but they must make them a bit differently to their normal coils.

To answer your question. If you are happy with the ride still then 30mm coil spacers may be a good fix as long as they have stopped sagging. They are $25 each including freight.

Shane

When you ask for any spring to be supplied for custom applications, you will end up with dramas in most cases if you dont specify what spring rate you need.

A lifted coil spring will give a standard vehicle the lift requires but when you start adding bars, winches, wheel carriers and heap of gear inside of course they will sag.

Determine what spring rate is standard for your vehicle and work from there. Thats what I've done and apart from about half inch of settlling they have been excellent.
Also, shock length should be fractionally shorter to help retain spring or fit limiting straps and coil locators.

You do have to allow for your springs to settle no matter what coils you have when selecting shocks. Once they have settled they should sit there happily for many years if they have gone through all the manufacturing processes properly and if like the above posts says they are appropriate for the amount of weight they have to carry.

When I sell coils I ask every person what accessoies they have and write it down on their receipt so they know what the coils are designed for.

Also, if your coils do not sit square on the coil hats then your front castor is out or your rear diff pinion angle is out and for a 4-5" lift it is putting more pressure on one side of the coil making it more likely you will have spring sag. You're supplier should explain this to you.

I will put a 12 month Suspension Stuff warranty on lifted Dobinsons coils if I know that you have built your rig properly and you have let me know what accessories you have.

Shane

personally I think suspension should be the last thing you fit.
fit everything else, then weigh front and rear axles then get suspension to suit that.
but looks are more important than practicality.

bogged wrote:personally I think suspension should be the last thing you fit.
fit everything else, then weigh front and rear axles then get suspension to suit that.
but looks are more important than practicality.

I agree totally.

If everyone new this it would save me a lot of explaining.

In fact I will make it part of the advice I give on my web site.

Shane

bogged wrote:personally I think suspension should be the last thing you fit.
fit everything else, then weigh front and rear axles then get suspension to suit that.
but looks are more important than practicality.

Pfft practicality .. who does that anymore...

4WD Stuff wrote:You do have to allow for your springs to settle no
I will put a 12 month Suspension Stuff warranty on lifted Dobinsons coils if I know that you have built your rig properly and you have let me know what accessories you have.

Shane

ahem...er we are the same with the training and performance of our rugby coaches..we enhance and super train them for years before we 'lease' them to another country imrpoving the winning capabilities of that countries supreme team..i.e. the Wallabies - go Robbie!

Shane, I have dobinsons springs - would they be stamped with a part or i.d. number number by any chance??

(apologies for off topic question).

twodiffs wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote:You do have to allow for your springs to settle no
I will put a 12 month Suspension Stuff warranty on lifted Dobinsons coils if I know that you have built your rig properly and you have let me know what accessories you have.

Shane

ahem...er we are the same with the training and performance of our rugby coaches..we enhance and super train them for years before we 'lease' them to another country imrpoving the winning capabilities of that countries supreme team..i.e. the Wallabies - go Robbie!

Shane, I have dobinsons springs - would they be stamped with a part or i.d. number number by any chance??

(apologies for off topic question).

Those Rugby remarks must be following on from my comments on another forum. It is early but Australia seems to be doing better with him as a coach. Or maybe the Kiwi's are just losing their touch.

As for the Dobinsons coils, they are not stemped but they might stool (kiwi accent)have a sticker on them if you are lucky. If not, meausure how thick the wire is and count how many turns the coils have. eg 10.5 Turns with 20mm wire. Then tell me what lift you were told they were and I should be able to figure out what part number they are. Sometimes there are 2 coils with the exact same spec but with a higher free height, but we can cross that bridge if we have to.

Shane

[/quote]Those Rugby remarks must be following on from my comments on another forum. It is early but Australia seems to be doing better with him as a coach. Or maybe the Kiwi's are just losing their touch.

As for the Dobinsons coils, they are not stemped but they might stool (kiwi accent)have a sticker on them if you are lucky. If not, meausure how thick the wire is and count how many turns the coils have. eg 10.5 Turns with 20mm wire. Then tell me what lift you were told they were and I should be able to figure out what part number they are. Sometimes there are 2 coils with the exact same spec but with a higher free height, but we can cross that bridge if we have to.

Shane[/quote]

Oh no....goodness me - i would never stoop (aussie accent) so low as to insinuate my meager observance based on comments from another fine Patrol forum..

Sticker long gone dude but will measure as you say and ask.

cheers

'Robbie Deans'

twodiffs wrote:

4wdStuff wrote:Those Rugby remarks must be following on from my comments on another forum. It is early but Australia seems to be doing better with him as a coach. Or maybe the Kiwi's are just losing their touch.

As for the Dobinsons coils, they are not stemped but they might stool (kiwi accent)have a sticker on them if you are lucky. If not, meausure how thick the wire is and count how many turns the coils have. eg 10.5 Turns with 20mm wire. Then tell me what lift you were told they were and I should be able to figure out what part number they are. Sometimes there are 2 coils with the exact same spec but with a higher free height, but we can cross that bridge if we have to.

Shane

Oh no....goodness me - i would never stoop (aussie accent) so low as to insinuate my meager observance based on comments from another fine Patrol forum..

Sticker long gone dude but will measure as you say and ask.

cheers

'Robbie Deans'

No worries bro

There is a thing called scragged to length in the springmaking industry. Sragging is usually the act of compressing a spring solid 3 times to achieve the desired length of a higher than normal stressed spring. On some springs this is not achievable due to some dimension constraints that is imposed ie going to long. When this happens some companies will scrag down to what is believed to be the shortest length the spring will compress to give the desired length, however if this goes further it will lose length and in turn you will lose height of your lift. When this happens it should be back to the drawing board for redesign and if it cant be done within the constraints it shouldnt be made unless there are further modifications. There will be the normal height loss on any spring that has been scragged no matter what though and that would be just about any vehicle spring.
Johno

elmo72j wrote:There is a thing called scragged to length in the springmaking industry. Sragging is usually the act of compressing a spring solid 3 times to achieve the desired length of a higher than normal stressed spring. On some springs this is not achievable due to some dimension constraints that is imposed ie going to long. When this happens some companies will scrag down to what is believed to be the shortest length the spring will compress to give the desired length, however if this goes further it will lose length and in turn you will lose height of your lift. When this happens it should be back to the drawing board for redesign and if it cant be done within the constraints it shouldnt be made unless there are further modifications. There will be the normal height loss on any spring that has been scragged no matter what though and that would be just about any vehicle spring.
Johno

I think they all do a good job for their usual big run stuff. The problem is when they do the small run stuff off their big machines. The process is different because it all happens about 100 times slower. The coil has to be re heated to the correct temperature which is different for different coils.

They heated up my front 5" flexy coils too much yesterday or today and they have to take them through the process again.

I designed some coils that Dobinsons made that a customer was waiting on. Once scragged they didn't stand up within the 3mm tolerance and they chucked my spring and I had to re design it stronger.

I know Dobinsons have a machine that throws ball bearings at the coil at speed. It apparently makes the coil last longer.

Basically there is a lot more to making great springs then meets the eye.

Shane

Shane
Would have to agree that most of them do a good job and yes the smaller the run the process can slow down.

Sounds like they tempered your springs back to much.

The ball bearing machine you talk about is a shotpeening machine. What this does is even out the surface stresses and take out any imperfections that is implied to the spring during manufacturing therefore they will give better service life.

Yes there is more than meets the eye, I have 14 years springmaking and design experience behind me.
Johno.

Now this is a very interesting thread, some extremely good knowledge coming through from people in the know...keep it coming!

pm sent to Johno for spring design formulae.

Shane