Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey guys just weighing up the diffrences..
i can get a coily fairly cheep.. but i know i will have to put a leefy transfer in her.. bolt in??

and also it has a buggerd rear diff, are they interchangable with a wt center or completley diffrent?

i have serced a bit but not found much??

thanks

G'day Jonno,

Leafy transfer will go in no worries but you need to change the shaft that goes from the gearbox to the transfer case.

Diff centers are the same as far as I know, only the diff ration changes from 3.7:1 to 3.9:1 on coilies. The good thing is you can buy each part to fix your diff separately from Suzuki (including gears which are sold per unit) so it could work out reasonably cheap.

Otherwise, go out and get yourself an ARB airlocker (ARB Ref. : RD88)

Cheers,

If you want to do anything other than medium off road work and don't exceed about a 31" tyre you'll be OK with the coiler. If you think you're going to want heavy duty parts like CV's etc you don't want a coiler, because none of them fit.

They have crap suspension design though and that's very hard to overcome unless you're heavily into fabrication.

All axles and front diff components like knuckles, spindles etc are unique.

Unless it was super cheap ( well under $3K or so) and you were either going to keep it pretty stock and enjoy the nicer styling or your building a monster )i.e changing everything) I wouldn't bother with a coiler.

Steve.

ok cool
its looking at around 3500 atm.. so a bit cheep!

transfer is sweet!

and i can get a wt center with a locker cheep...

may be just a new r&p

yeah im thinking of just running 31 treppys or mongrels.. something a bit nicer i guess...

just as a question.. i know they are diffrent but are they any weeker in the drive train than a standard 1300wt?

You'll need a 2" BL to clear the tyres and some small bumpstop spacers.

Personally, I don't think that's cheap enough for the hassle, but that's just me.

Steve.

its come down to the fact i canot find a zook to buy in tassie.. so im pretty much gona take what i can!

im thinking a 2inch bl and some coil spacers.

you will have a hard time finding coil spacers for the front cos they have struts

As said they have struts up front but coil spacers are easy to get.

i want to solve the struts with spacers but nobody wants to supply a pic of the mount ( past threads )

Surely Bruce (off here) could make some.

i will surply a pic as soon as i get it!

fordy1 wrote:As said they have struts up front but coil spacers are easy to get.

i want to solve the struts with spacers but nobody wants to supply a pic of the mount ( past threads )

if you put say 2inch spacers in the front it will lift the car 2 inches higher but wont it also extend the front shocks out another 2 inches so you wont have long enough shocks when flexing ,and as far as i no you cant get loger shocks for the struts

doesnt matter, not enough flex in coily's

personally i think you should get a leafy phil but i think you have already made up your mind.

jonno_racing wrote:and i can get a wt center with a locker cheep...

not cheap but you can get one

fordy1 wrote:As said they have struts up front but coil spacers are easy to get.

i want to solve the struts with spacers but nobody wants to supply a pic of the mount ( past threads )

They aren't quite a conventional strut set up.

Think of a normal strut. You have the strut, a spring that goes on it, then a plate is bolted down on top which holds the spring in place, which is then bolted into the vehicle. Now imagine that top plate that you normally would stick a spacer on top of, it doesn't exist on a coily. Instead of that plate being bolted in, it is part of the tower the strut goes in. You can't place a spacer on the top of the strut like a normal strut.

Or another way to think of it. Remove a conventional strut and take that top plate off, then stick it back on the tower, but instead of bolting it in place (usually 3 bolts) weld it in there. Now you are basically left with how a coily set up is.

A strut spacer will do nothing for a coily anyway. The standard King Spring, Ultima Shock set up in the front is as good as you're going to get as a straight bolt in swap for the front of a coily and works as well as a coily front end will allow.

well if sombody wants to supply a coily i will fabracat a spacer so that it will; bolt straight up!!

poeple keep whinging but still no action!!

please provide a pic of the mounted strut and we can start to solve the problem...

please provide a pic of the mounted strut and we can start to solve the problem...[/quote]

heres some pics of mine hope it helps









also this is one with a 1.5 inch spacer in the front but his shocks are pulled out 1.5 inches as well

Has anyone lowered the strut mount on the chassis and place a 50 x 50 thick wall tube on the bottom of the chassis to aid in the mount being welded back on , also lowering the bumpstop , just a idea , comments , Cheers Paul.

MART wrote:Has anyone lowered the strut mount on the chassis and place a 50 x 50 thick wall tube on the bottom of the chassis to aid in the mount being welded back on , also lowering the bumpstop , just a idea , comments , Cheers Paul.

Mine has the opposite, the lower mounts have been raised slightly on the axle. This mostly is because they were cut off and the housing was braced each side along the top to the very edge, then the mounts went back on top of the bracing. They have also been rotated 90 degrees so that the mounting bolt isn't running parallel with the axle housing.

Realistically, if going to the extent of cutting off the stock mounts, you may as well just get rid of them completely, do the extra work and at least go to a Jimny set up.

fordy1 wrote:poeple keep whinging but still no action!!

Who keeps winging? Getting height out of the front of a coily is not the issue. The issues are the lack of choices in the way of longer struts, the front arms aren't that strong, the bush position is in such a way that binding becomes a problem to quickly, the mounting positions aren't that strong. Going to high makes those problems even worse. A 40-50mm lift is all that's needed at the maximum on a stock front end and the parts to do that bolt in are available. A spacer of any kind is not going to fix the front end issues that people complain about, a grinder and welder will.

how is the actual shock attached to the chassi?? does it just bolt though a eye?? i think i have an idea!

Once you've had that idea, you can sort out the brackets breaking off the axles, the radius arms bending, the inability to buy any aftermarket bushes that are soft enough, the excessive roll stiffness in the front, the inadequate roll stiffness in the rear, the inadequate caster on the front, the lack of wheel travel, the way every front end component is designed around the coil front end s there's no parts interchageability with the leaf car.....

Really, the suspension on the coiler is a great steaming nard. There's a reason suzuki ran leaves forever but that horrible coil setup for about 2 years before they totally reworked it for the Jimny (which is almost as bad, but better in some key areas)

Coilers have a nice front clip and dash though.

Steve.

since u ask....

Gwagensteve wrote:Once you've had that idea, you can sort out the brackets breaking off the axles

simply weld them stronger?? with braceing etc?

Gwagensteve wrote: the radius arms bending, the inability to buy any aftermarket bushes that are soft enough,the inadequate caster on the front

custom arms.. see spamwells build

Gwagensteve wrote: the excessive roll stiffness in the front, the inadequate roll stiffness in the rear, the lack of wheel travel,

corectly set coils..

Gwagensteve wrote: the way every front end component is designed around the coil front end s there's no parts interchageability with the leaf car.....,.

ummm let me get back 2 u

Gwagensteve wrote: Really, the suspension on the coiler is a great steaming nard. There's a reason suzuki ran leaves forever but that horrible coil setup for about 2 years before they totally reworked it for the Jimny (which is almost as bad, but better in some key areas)

Coilers have a nice front clip and dash though.

Steve

im after somthing that rides better etc...

just some ideas atm.. i havent bought it yet!

With tiny wheels and wheelbase it still won't ride brilliant.

You've clearly got your heart set on a coiler, and nothing anyone says is going to make any difference. Go for it.

Coil choice won't fix the roll stiffness. Really, an X link in the front and/or a swaybar in the rear might help though.

By the time you've reworked the whole suspension to try to get it to work as well as a well set up leaf car, I think you'll find some of the handling and drivability advantages of the coiler will have dissapeared., nd you'll have way more labour, $$, and troubleshooting in it than a leaf car.

So long as you know what your getting yourself in for...

Steve.

Wow this argument will never die. coily sierras are way better than a leafy ever will be but yes they are weaker in certain parts. this is easily fixed by any capable backyarder. just to let you know coil spacers from a tj jeep fit perfectly (i used to buy them from arb, they are yellow and around $9.00 each. the front and rear end parts are mostly interchangeable with a jimny (including a high pinion front arb locker with tiny mods).

i used to make front strut setups pretty much any length you required, but gave up as people (typical suzuki nuts) were cheap asses and did not want to pay the price ($220) each strut for adjustables.

pm me if you wish to know how to do this.

cheers mark

im just weighing up the options..
yeah i could just get a leefy.. but as i sad.. not easy to find and the coilys are nicer...

anyways im going to go have a GOOD look at this coily and see what i think.. go from there...
Phil

mark i will talk to u on msn.. if you ever talk back!

Gwagensteve wrote:Once you've had that idea, you can sort out the brackets breaking off the axles, the radius arms bending, the inability to buy any aftermarket bushes that are soft enough, the excessive roll stiffness in the front, the inadequate roll stiffness in the rear, the inadequate caster on the front, the lack of wheel travel, the way every front end component is designed around the coil front end s there's no parts interchageability with the leaf car.....

Really, the suspension on the coiler is a great steaming nard. There's a reason suzuki ran leaves forever but that horrible coil setup for about 2 years before they totally reworked it for the Jimny (which is almost as bad, but better in some key areas)

Coilers have a nice front clip and dash though.

Steve.

I FOUND A PLACE TO BUY THE RUBBER BUSHES IN ENGLAND POSTED HERE CHEAPER THAN POLY ONES YAY YAY anyways

i think that the harder bushes and springs have made the rear end better, i need longer shocks and rubber bushes in the front and i will see how i go...........

now all i need is gearing aahhhhhhhh

sam

That's an elegant solution to the roll stiffness problem - stiff rear bushes and soft front bushes. I like it.

Mud4B - (this is a serious question) when you say a coiler is better than a coily is way better than a leaf car "will ever be" what do you mean - Better at what, and comparing what spec with what spec?

Steve.

Hi guys, we have plenty of new and used Coily parts here in stock or only a phone call away.
A Coily is a far better option to start with if you dont mind spending a bit to modify it.
I have had both coil and leaf Suzukis and the Coily wins hands down for its soft ride and suspension flex in standard form.
We have all the parts to do a 50mm body lift and 30mm suspension lift which is more than what most will ever need. We also sell heavy duty castor corrected radius arms in 50 or 100mm corrected.
Are you really going to need more lift than that?
As with every modification, for every positive there is a negative effect.

Mudbits wrote:Hi guys, we have plenty of new and used Coily parts here in stock or only a phone call away.
A Coily is a far better option to start with if you dont mind spending a bit to modify it.
I have had both coil and leaf Suzukis and the Coily wins hands down for its soft ride and suspension flex in standard form.
We have all the parts to do a 50mm body lift and 30mm suspension lift which is more than what most will ever need. We also sell heavy duty castor corrected radius arms in 50 or 100mm corrected.
Are you really going to need more lift than that?
As with every modification, for every positive there is a negative effect.

Having ramped my swb leaf sprung zook against a coiler, in various states of build, theere is no differance (very little anyway) until the mods got pretty heavy (lux diffs and custom links/coils). The coilers lack of roll stiffness in the rear IMHO meant that even if it got an inch further up the ramp, the leaf sprung rig was MUCH more balanced and stable. Didnt ride that much better as well. The wheel base kills the ride more than the spring method.

Layto....