Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Not 4x4 tech, but there's a lot of rev heads on this site.

Thinking about this:

HQ Holden, 4 speed Manual, V8, 308 worked, blue printed & balanced, silica pistons, stage 3 cam, 30 thou over bore, all bottom end bearings 30 thou over, ported & polished heads, 650 double pumper holly, twin 2 1/2 inch exhaust system, extractors, 4 speed, power steering, 5 poster bull bar, driving lights, tow bar, GTS dash, 3.08 diff, WB body, bucket seats, paint average but body straight, very little rust, unfinished project, regretful sale.

Basically, I need to be talked outta it The guy wants $2500 for it, been out of rego for about 7 months. And he reckons there's hardly any rust in it, which is hard to believe, I thought kingswoods where renowned for their rust?

Does that sound like a reasonable price? I'd love to get it for under 2k, and prolly couldn't buy it unless it was. But looking on ebay they seem to be fetching decent prices so I think 2500 is a pretty good buy.

How thirsty are they? And I'm guessing it'll be needing lead addatives for the fuel?

Just after any info any previous owners can share.

I hate Holdens' but here goes anyway.....
That is a WB with a HQ chassis.
308/4 speed with a 650 Holley won't get brilliant economy but should be reliable as a fence post.
$2500 sounds OK for a V8 ute.
You can sell the bullbar and put the cash towards a gas setup which has an attractive rebate at the moment.
Depends wether you haul long distance or heavy loads but you might want to change the diff to a taller ratio foe economy... EG: 2.73:1 or fit a 5 speed gearbox.
Check for rust in the base of the windscreen, sills, under back window and floors.
Jas.

Yeah i was a bit worried about the gearing side of things, so you reckon 3.08 diff gears will be too low?

IF I get it, its mostly going to be a toy/project. So driving will be a mix of town/hwy, but I'm in a country town so anywhere I go is 100kph highway driving. Don't really want it to be revving its tits off doing 100. I'm sick of that in the Rocky already.

check the front chassis rails for cracks, they are well known for it. usually appears by the shocker mounts but i have seen a few with cracks through the rails where the steering box mounts. can be an expensive fix.

Also check how many shimms there are to get the wheel alignment, these are easily seen from inside the engine bay. Lotsa shimms could equal bent front crossmember (not uncommon on the v8). Loose the bullbar. Yeah they could user taller gearing... 2.78 or even 2.6 or since your a country town boy maybe slightly taller tyres to get a bit more ground clearance (hillbilly). Fuel economy will not be good, but depends a lot on ya right foot, driven carefully I doubt you will get any better than abt 18 mpg in the old language. The dbl pumper will also hurt economy, maybe go to vac secondaries type carby. Also check it is actually a 308 not a 253, it's cast into the outside of the block but I can't remember which side. You'll need a mirror to see it.

$2500 sounds pretty good for an old ute like that specialy if the body is straight and interior is good. oh one more thing worked 308 will go like a cut cat

RED60 wrote: Fuel economy will not be good, but depends a lot on ya right foot, driven carefully I doubt you will get any better than abt 18 mpg in the old language.

Works out to about 13-15 L/100 if I'm doing it right, I can live with that. Using 11-12L/100 at the moment, and that's diesel so about 20cpl more than petty.

Might keep the bar, I know its ugly as hell, but there's a lot of roo's here at night. First thing to go would be that bonnet, dunno what the hell he's tried to draw on it A kranky koala?

The double carbs better for performance isn't it? Pumps more fuel in? Bare with me, my petty tech's a bit old and limited

Phunkshun wrote:oh one more thing worked 308 will go like a cut cat

That's the main draw card of it for me


Thanks for the replies so far. Might see if I can have a look at it tomorrow. Will try and take pics.

Actually, another Q, Having a WB body on the HQ chassis, would that cause any problems as far as re-registering it goes? I just need to make sure the numbers on the old rego papers match whats physically there right?

RockyF75 wrote: The double carbs better for performance isn't it? Pumps more fuel in? Bare with me, my petty tech's a bit old and limited

If your at all worried with fuel economy, loose the 650DP and go back to the std Rochester carb. They can give good economy and preformance, just a bit more fiddly to tune than a Holley. Or get a 600 vac sec Holley and get someone who knows what their doing to jet/tune it.

A mech secondary DP Holley is a performace carb and you would be better off with a smaller vac secondary carb on a mild 308 with tall gearing. The double pumper bit just meens its got two accelerator pumps, one for the rear two barrels as well. There only there to overcome the flat spot when you nail it and mechanically open the secondaries. A vac secondary carb is a better option for a mild street car.

RockyF75 wrote:

308 worked, 30 thou over bore,

Basically, I need to be talked outta it

I walked away as soon as I read that !



one thing 308's hate is da big drill bit, its generally a sign that overheating will be shortly on you list of "fix its", & I live in "sunny" Victoria !

Factor into your pricing a re-build, & include a re-sleive @ $100 per pot + new pistons, gaskets etc etc etc......

or

a new LS1 motor if you want any real power & economy







You'll be throwing good money after bad up until the day you sell it

Kingy

I thought if they bored it out, sleeves would go in at the same time?

And I'm not excessively concerned about economy, its not going to be a DD. I just want to own and drive a half decent V8 for a while fuel is still somewhat affordable.

And thanks for the PM

RockyF75 wrote:I thought if they bored it out, sleeves would go in at the same time?

Your thinking diesel...... when they fit new pistons to a diesel engine they usually fit new liners.

In a petrol engine they litterally drill it out to a bigger size to suit a larger piston...... this means the cylinder wall thickness is REDUCED.

RockyF75 wrote:And thanks for the PM

Ya welcome..... I dont have to ask what he said

the double pumper will be too much for that engine especially if you want some economy out of it.
I have a 308 in my torana with the same ratio diff and gbox as that ute and it sits on bout 2400rpm at 100 i think, it also has a 650 holley but its a vac sec so it only opens the 2 butterflies under light throttle.
If its a sailsbury diff in it there are plenty of ratios available, the boring of the 308 out 30thou wont be a problem, i used to have one that was out to the max of 60 thou and never had an overheating problem. Just make sure the whole cooling system is up to scratch and a fan shroud will help with airflow heaps.
You should buy it at that price, its not a bad deal, i have seen worse than that go for more.
Will do good skids for them B&S balls too
nibbsy

Depending on when the boring out was done you would hope that the heads might have been done for unleaded at the same time. I'd check that.

I walked away as soon as I read that !



one thing 308's hate is da big drill bit, its generally a sign that overheating will be shortly on you list of "fix its", & I live in "sunny" Victoria !

Factor into your pricing a re-build, & include a re-sleive @ $100 per pot + new pistons, gaskets etc etc etc......

or

a new LS1 motor if you want any real power & economy



You'll be throwing good money after bad up until the day you sell it

Kingy

30thou is f*%k all, still two to go. 650 double pumber is to big, 600 holly is the go. whatever you do don't go back to Rochester carb. Nooooooooo.

Old holden motors are hard to kill, the gearbox on the other hand. Ifs an aussie 4 spd behind a "worked 308" i give it 2 mnths!! 3.08 are the ratio you want (if you can find them), 2.78 will be great on the long haul, but in town it will be a bitch (tryed it).

If its a HQ you can get away with a 350 chevy

painted sills might worry me a bit, hiding something

P.S keep the bonnet! upgrad the bar work, you got the power to push it

RockyF75 wrote:Works out to about 13-15 L/100 if I'm doing it right, I can live with that.

F@ck if thats all i'm gettin a HJ with 308 in it, my POS Vitara is usein that at the moment.


and stick the 350 chevy motor, keep it AUSSIE.

LFONZ wrote:
3.08 are the ratio you want (if you can find them), 2.78 will be great on the long haul, but in town it will be a bitch (tryed it).

P.S keep the bonnet! upgrad the bar work, you got the power to push it

3.08 is what its got.

Undecided about the bonnet, it just looks odd in the pictures I don't really want a BnS ute, if all goes to plan, I'd like it to just look clean and straight, and make lots of noise. Prolly respray it a shiny white if I ever get the time

nibbsy wrote: I have a 308 in my torana with the same ratio diff and gbox as that ute and it sits on bout 2400rpm at 100 i think, it also has a 650 holley but its a vac sec so it only opens the 2 butterflies under light throttle.

If you know, I'd bee pretty keen to hear what sort of fuel your torana uses on the highway. I know its going to be a bit different in a ute, but at least some idea will be good.

nibbsy wrote:
Will do good skids for them B&S balls too
nibbsy

Noooooooo, I'm not a complete yobbo.... yet

V8Patrol wrote:

RockyF75 wrote:And thanks for the PM

Ya welcome..... I dont have to ask what he said

Haven't had a chance to ring him yet, will tomorrow. But I can guess what I'm going to hear.


Funnily enough, had a feller come through work today with HQ 308 with a turbo 400. Told him what I was looking at and why I was concerned about it (the 30thou bore) and he said he's had the same done and not had problems with it, he just runs a larger than standard radiator. Then he gave it some loud pedal on the way out and pretty much convinced me I want one

Whats a decent alternative to the aussie 4 speed? Friend of mine has a 253 HQ with a toyota 5sp behind it, swears by it, but I wouldn't have thought the yota gearbox to being any stronger than the Holden one He drives fairly sedately tho, so that might be why it's lasted.

And here's a possibly stupid question, what are carbs worth? It seems unanimous that the 650 dp is overkill, what would I be up for to get say the 600 vac sec Holley?

Just want to make sure I don't bite of more than I can afford with the finance side of things.

30 Thou over is nothing too worry about and nor the 3.08 diff. I run a 600dp on a 308 and it's not a daily driver so no concern with it either, you can live with it. All depends on how much right foot you use. Mine ran cheaper than my Gutlux on the highway.

The cast marks are on the passenger side between the welsh plugs, or you can just tell by the engine number, If it is a HQ 308 it should start with QT####### or 253 QR#######. If it's factory fitted the Eng code on the compliance plate should read L31 for 308 or L32 for 253 or L6 for Six cylinder

Nurse the 4speed if it's an M20/M21They can live with a bit of power but treat them right.

Hope this helps

chimpboy wrote:Depending on when the boring out was done you would hope that the heads might have been done for unleaded at the same time. I'd check that.

Aside from asking him and believing what he says, or pulling the engine to bits, is there any way to tell?

No, Just run top end lube with Premium or convert to lpg. Not many seem to be converted unleaded though.

For the Trans is ya don't care about auto/manual thing go a Turbo 400 i think these are the 3speed auto but have no lag if done right.

go the stout rat rod! much nicer!

man HQs are fully sik..

here is a vid of one with a 308 in it built to the same specs as that Ute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mH86NDOhLU


yes i am being sarcastic

my point is that engine is still basically stock..i wouldnt expect it to be all that fast at all(not even as fast as a stock commodore, V6 that is)

the engine is an aussie pattern 308 which means that the only gearboxes to run behind them are either the M20, M21 it has or if you go to auto you are limited to a trimatic unless you get an adapter..these motors are worth nothing to buy..it still has a standard manifold on it, the 650 is overkill and it would be as thirsty as hell on fuel

a mate just sold his VK Calais with a 12 second 308 in it, real nice mags, NOS kit everything and only got 4 grand for it..thats a luxury car in comparison to the ute and heaps faster too..

my point is you could build the ute to be heaps better for a bit more or build it to the same standard for cheaper

dave

The thing is a 308 will with a bit of slight modification keep up with a BOSS 290, even them who really gives a sh!t, the sound of an old 308 at idle with a good exhaust makes the most beautiful burble and another reason it is an Aussie legend the V8 ute. The stout rat rod looks nice pitty it writting on the door.

Phunkshun wrote:the sound of an old 308 at idle with a good exhaust makes the most beautiful burble and another reason it is an Aussie legend the V8 ute.

Bingo. And thats mostly what I'm after. I'm not after a drag car, or a fast car. Just a cruisy, classic V8.

Anyhow, my plans have sort of just been torpedo'd Blew the head gasket in the Rocky today, still having a look at the HQ on Saturday but if its not in registrable condition and he's not negotiable on price, it just aint going to happen at this stage. Which is very annoying.

80lsy gq wrote: a mate just sold his VK Calais with a 12 second 308 in it, real nice mags, NOS kit everything and only got 4 grand for it..thats a luxury car in comparison to the ute and heaps faster too..

it's just a commodore, you could spend $20k on one and still only sell it for $10k. lol

The thing is a 308 will with a bit of slight modification keep up with a BOSS 290, even them who really gives a sh!t, the sound of an old 308 at idle with a good exhaust makes the most beautiful burble and another reason it is an Aussie legend the V8 ute.

for sound you cant go past a 308 ticker with a pacemaker

RockyF75 wrote:Which is very annoying.

I treat stuff like that as a sign... there'll be other HQs waiting out there

LFONZ wrote:30thou is f*%k all, still two to go.

Perhaps I'd better 'explain myself" a tad more.......

Your quite right in the 30thou being phuckall, and 10 years ago I'd have fully agreed with you that it wouldnt be a problem


but.....

its the actual corrosion issue from the water jackets thats the issue and in a lot of engines of that age ( 308 from a HQ now being 30+ years old ) passing the big drill bit cuts away what may be the only part of a cylinder thats actually keeping the water out !

I've got 2 or 3 308"s here with pin holed bores and they all have been bored out..... one of em is out to 60thou ! Sure they are the "odd cases" where it has happened but it does happen and not everyone can get away with it !


30+ years of rusty water around a liner + an overbore = asking for dramas !

If the 308 is from a commodore ( blue or black motor) then I wouldnt be overly concerned at all..... but a red 308......

Thats asking for 30+years of trouble to smack you around financially in an ugly way.

Rocky wrote:I was concerned about it (the 30thou bore) and he said he's had the same done and not had problems with it, he just runs a larger than standard radiator.

My first question would have been ......

Why the bigger radiator ????????



Kingy

V8Patrol wrote:

LFONZ wrote:30thou is f*%k all, still two to go.

If the 308 is from a commodore ( blue or black motor) then I wouldnt be overly concerned at all..... but a red 308......

Rocky wrote:I was concerned about it (the 30thou bore) and he said he's had the same done and not had problems with it, he just runs a larger than standard radiator.

My first question would have been ......

Why the bigger radiator ????????

Kingy

radiator looks like a std v8 Wb radiotor to me.

i would have to argue the red vs blue kingy. There is one or two red motor blocks that are used with the commodore cup cars because they are thicker then the rest, not sure on the eng number series to define them.

Phunkshun wrote:The stout rat rod looks nice pitty it writting on the door.

check the rest out, nice engine bay

http://www.minitruckinweb.com/features/ ... to_04.html