Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey guys

I destroyed a front shock this weekend, before i do a search can the likes of shane or any other guys point me in the right direction for replacing it please.

Firstly i'm not sure if it got compressed too much or extended too far, but the rubber bush disappeared and it spat oil out everywhere.

I need to know how to calculate the length for a new shock or shocks.
(I have gone from 3" lift to 4" lift some time ago so need shocks to suit the extra height).

Thanks in advance guys.

over compressed by the sound of it.

You'll need to buy 2 new front shocks. What you have to do is actually pull your springs out and push the front axle up until your shocks bottom out and then measure the distance between axle bumpstop point and the chassis bumpstop mount. From here you can figure out what you need to do with the bumpstop lengths.

Goodluck with it.

350mm compressed base of pin to base of pin is about the shortest you can go with the compressed length of a shock before getting longer front bump stops.

What brand is your coils?

Coils are Dobinsons 3" Shane and I have added 30mm spacers all round.
Compressed or extended it's stuffed and possibly left front as well. (no sway bars by the way).

I think you're right Yom - but technically i need to replace all four shocks given i have raised it an extra 30mm??.

The left front was making noises in the end as well - this was a river 'boulder bash' so things were working thats for sure GREAT trip will post pics soon once i sort my memory cards.

Do you know what the extended length of the shock you have is? Measuring from base of pin to base of pin.
For a 3" lift we moslty send out 555mm extended length shocks. For you it is basically an extra 30mm because of the spacer. You then have to raise bump stops depending on the shock.

If you have really soft coils then then there is a possibility of over compressing your shocks at 350mm. Who know what the person before you have done as far as mods are concerned.

Shane

Not yet - i'll have to remove it to measure, they are not soft coils but are not too firm either..they have performed blimmin well over the last year. (they will be around 3 years old).

I'll take it out tomorrow night and measure the extended length and let you know.

thanks dude/s

Rather than extended bumpstops I'd look at raising the shock towers. It is a very easy job to do. We are doing it in a mates truck at present so that we can fit longer 80 series shocks. All that you need to do is unbolt the shock tower, remove the captive bolts and replace with longer bolts and spacers.

You should set your bumpstop height to the spring so that you don't get coil bind and set the shock hieght to work with the spring and bumpstop. Otherwise you aren't getting the travel that you put the suspension lift in for.
I have a 3" lift but with a lot lighter truck it sit closer to 4" and 80 series shocks with the shock towers raised about 50mm. ie the tower sits about 200mm above the spring platform. This is a guide only as I have twin shocks, hydraulic bumpstops and an alloy V8 so not an exact model for yours.
One more question, have you done the brake hoses??? If not they are working as you limiting straps!!!!!!!!! Put a rear hose on the front and get a custom one made for the rear that is about 4" longer than standard.

4WD Stuff wrote:Do you know what the extended length of the shock you have is? Measuring from base of pin to base of pin.
For a 3" lift we moslty send out 555mm extended length shocks. For you it is basically an extra 30mm because of the spacer. You then have to raise bump stops depending on the shock.

If you have really soft coils then then there is a possibility of over compressing your shocks at 350mm. Who know what the person before you have done as far as mods are concerned.

Shane

Shane - hope this info helps.

RF shock removed and measured base of pin to base of pin.
compressed = 290mm
extended = 470mm

RR removed and checked base of shock to base of shock.
compressed = 325mm
extended = 570mm.

cheers

Jamie

One more question, have you done the brake hoses??? If not they are working as you limiting straps!!!!!!!!! Put a rear hose on the front and get a custom one made for the rear that is about 4" longer than standard.[/quote]

Yeah according to the previous owner the rear hose was replaced BUT i'm going to make sure of everything. Somebody said Tough Dog shocks have the largest bore, would that be right and is that what governs the best shocks - bore size?

Just working through the search functions, going by the info i'm finding AND the compressed/extended measurements i quoted above i think my current shocks are way too small, anyone agree??

twodiffs wrote:Just working through the search functions, going by the info i'm finding AND the compressed/extended measurements i quoted above i think my current shocks are way too small, anyone agree??

Yep surely the reason for stuffed shock. So the opposite to what we thought, being over extended all day every day would have taken its toll. Have you noticed a rough ride?

The problem over here, too many so called experts sell shocks that do say 0-2" lift, 2-4" lift etc, mainly because they dont have a good range to suit individual lifts

My last set of pro comps from oz were great, but were sold on the GQ, so my next set will be brought back when on holiday, as a lot of 4wd shops here know shite

KIWI wrote:The problem over here, too many so called experts sell shocks that do say 0-2" lift, 2-4" lift etc, mainly because they dont have a good range to suit individual lifts

My last set of pro comps from oz were great, but were sold on the GQ, so my next set will be brought back when on holiday, as a lot of 4wd shops here know shite

Errr.....are you going for a holiday in the next week by any chance...mate....buddy ole pal????

twodiffs wrote: Errr.....are you going for a holiday in the next week by any chance...mate....buddy ole pal????

Unfortunately its next month we head over, but the Tough Dogs are a lot cheaper there from memory

KIWI wrote:

twodiffs wrote: Errr.....are you going for a holiday in the next week by any chance...mate....buddy ole pal????

Unfortunately its next month we head over, but the Tough Dogs are a lot cheaper there from memory

Have a squizz at this thread.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic147826-0-0-asc-.php

Alot of good info, i've got the chance now to do my shocks properly and i only want to do it once so am tempted to suss out pro comps, dobinsons etc. But you're right...there's not many shops who know what they are doing here eh?

nzdarin wrote:Rather than extended bumpstops I'd look at raising the shock towers. It is a very easy job to do. We are doing it in a mates truck at present so that we can fit longer 80 series shocks. All that you need to do is unbolt the shock tower, remove the captive bolts and replace with longer bolts and spacers.

You should set your bumpstop height to the spring so that you don't get coil bind and set the shock hieght to work with the spring and bumpstop. Otherwise you aren't getting the travel that you put the suspension lift in for..

Great idea. No really, it is!

But no good if you don't have a body lift.

[/quote]Yep surely the reason for stuffed shock. So the opposite to what we thought, being over extended all day every day would have taken its toll. Have you noticed a rough ride?[/quote]

Yeah slightly rougher for what coils should be but i just put that down to lift etc, in the end it's flexibility i want and i drive accordingly depending on set up so am not worried about cornering control too much. My truck is filled with building gear for work and i'm towing at times so something that can handle that AND give me enough flex for play time would be cool

twodiffs wrote:

4WD Stuff wrote:Yep surely the reason for stuffed shock. So the opposite to what we thought, being over extended all day every day would have taken its toll. Have you noticed a rough ride?

Yeah slightly rougher for what coils should be but i just put that down to lift etc, in the end it's flexibility i want and i drive accordingly depending on set up so am not worried about cornering control too much. My truck is filled with building gear for work and i'm towing at times so something that can handle that AND give me enough flex for play time would be cool

The only reason why I mentioned the rough ride was that this would have been the shocks over extending/topping out

Shane

[img]

Cool, so my next question is what is the recommended replacements with regards to compressed/extended travel?[/img]

Considering that you have a shorty, I doubt that you have SWB coils but 2" lift LWB coils which does lift you to near 3" lift heights. Because of this the 2" lift shocks would have been the best option.

Because you now have a 2" lift coil that sits at near 3" plus 30mm spacers you are now right to get 3" lift shocks. Any longer and you will lose a coil.
So 555mm extended length fronts, base of pin to base of pin and 700mm extended length rears centre of eye to centre of eye.

A lof of guys sell this length coils for the 4" lift anyway.

Shane

Yom wrote:

nzdarin wrote:Rather than extended bumpstops I'd look at raising the shock towers. It is a very easy job to do. We are doing it in a mates truck at present so that we can fit longer 80 series shocks. All that you need to do is unbolt the shock tower, remove the captive bolts and replace with longer bolts and spacers.

You should set your bumpstop height to the spring so that you don't get coil bind and set the shock hieght to work with the spring and bumpstop. Otherwise you aren't getting the travel that you put the suspension lift in for..

Great idea. No really, it is!

But no good if you don't have a body lift.

I have raised towers and no bodylift. Just needs some persuasion with a hammer and a small holt on the inner guard to access the top of the shock.

Dave

twodiffs wrote:One more question, have you done the brake hoses??? If not they are working as you limiting straps!!!!!!!!! Put a rear hose on the front and get a custom one made for the rear that is about 4" longer than standard.

Yeah according to the previous owner the rear hose was replaced BUT i'm going to make sure of everything. Somebody said Tough Dog shocks have the largest bore, would that be right and is that what governs the best shocks - bore size?[/quote]

Tough dog are OK, but calling them the best is big stretch! In my experience there levels of shock quality and normally they are price related.
So you have OME, EFS, Tough Dog and a few others. These are really good value for money. Not the cheapest but they last really well. I always use OME so I'm biased to them but the others aren't far off.
Below that I wouldn't waste you money cheap is cheap and will cost more in the long run.
Above that you have the likes of Koni, Bilstien, OME LTR's and the likes. All rebuildable and can have custom valving BUT they are at least twice the price but in the long term they will be cheaper as they will last longer and when it is time to replace they are just rebuild for a fraction of the cost.
If you look at what people competing in NZ are using that will give you an idea of where to go. Most are using either OME or EFS with some using either Koni or Fox but that is quite often budget related. ie I'd have Fox if I could afford them, untill then I will stay with the OME I have.

One other things with shocks. Just buying them by length won't get the right shock. Is it valved for coils or leafs? Is it valved for the rate of spring you have and the wieght of the truck? There is a lot to be said for matching shocks and springs. Not many places can actually offer that.

Koni and Bilstein shocks in my experience do not last longer then Lovells, EFS and Dobinsons shocks. If they do last longer it isn't by much. I have based this opinion on phone calls from guys who need to replace their Bilsteins or Koni's and not on scientific tests.

When it is time to rebuild the shocks it costs about the same to rebuild them as new shocks in Lovelles for example.

In my opinion which will be different to a lot of people you should purchase the dearer shocks for a slightly better ride quality or because you have a enough money to revalve the shock to suit the ride that you want. There are plenty of people travelling around in their Bilstein shocks who don't like the ride and can't justify the expense to rebuild and revalve them.

I think Tough Dogs would be ok if they didn't have a big internal bump stop which puts too much pressure on the shock when you compress them.

For a SWB I think for most people the ride is too rough if they get Tough Dogs. I always recommend the Procomp shocks for a SWB even if they do have unlimited funds because Procomps give a softer ride and the shorty needs all the help it can get. If you are loaded up then a Lovells shocks would be my next choice. I have spoken to someone who was happy with the Tough Dogs on the shorty but it suited the driving style and weight. I do suspect though that he didn't know what he was missing out on.

I don't know how much you pay for stuff in NZ so this may change my opinion if I were in NZ.

ps. I reserve the right to change my opinion in the future if required.

This is advice for a SWB which is different to the advice for a LWB.

Shane

I removed LR shock (it's extended length was 615mm)
High lifted until LR coil just became loose and the measurement from pin to pin was 700mm - is that what you would expect?

Ok with regards to other stuff (and i mean i've been TOLD the coils are Dobinsons) so can't guarantee that.

All 4 coils are blue, they are 19mm OD.

Rear coils end to end spiral for 8 full turns.
Front coils end to end spiral for 9 full turns.

I'm close to deciding on replacements so anyone in Kiwi land know who supplies (pref wholesale) Procomp, Lovells etc what about Rancho's...any good?

I'm no texan oil millionaire but i've got 1 chance to do this right and if it costs a dollar or two then so be it.

Procomps aren't available for Safari's over here, only Landrovers from memory.
I have run Rancho's on my old GQ and blew the rear seals, and broke the pins off the front, so would not use them again.

I would consider the EFS shocks, or maybe the OME L series? (may be too long)

Remind me to setup a shop in Kiwiland.

Do you want reminders on a daily, weekly or monthly basis?

There will be a cold frothy one in it for you if you do, mind you there probably will be one anyway if i'm over there doing my xmas shopping!!!

4WD Stuff wrote:Koni and Bilstein shocks in my experience do not last longer then Lovells, EFS and Dobinsons shocks. If they do last longer it isn't by much. I have based this opinion on phone calls from guys who need to replace their Bilsteins or Koni's and not on scientific tests.

When it is time to rebuild the shocks it costs about the same to rebuild them as new shocks in Lovelles for example.

How long have Lovells shocks actually been around?

We used to sell heaps of Tough Dog but soon came to realise that the quality just isn't there...the paint is crap and scratches off rapidly, the adjusters seize up and half the shocks they sell don't even bolt straight in and require modification to make them fit (not acceptable when you quote for shocks to bolt straight in but then waste time making them work), not to mention that its dearer then most of the other similiar generic brands for virtually the same thing. Now when quoting our first recommendation is for Bilstein shocks and Dobinsons springs, followed by EFS or Dobinsons shocks for the more budget orientated consumer. Everyone has their preffered brands, but i wouldn't sell something that i wouldn't trust in my own vehicle.

I would suggest you get OME 'L' series. Not the cheapest but better value for money than most. I would fit N73L's to the front and modify the shock tower to suit. And I would fit the stand GQ 'L' series shock to the rear. It is designed for a 50mm to 100mm lift as well.
I have 75mm spring and 'L' series shocks in the rear and I have the spring bolted in to keep them captive and reduces the load on the shock at full droop. ie the spring is then under tension.
To get the nearest dealer phone 0800 ARB4WD.

I'm not involved with ARB but I have been competing on OME suspension for 4 seasons, so all I'm suggesting is what Ihave used and abused.

FYI I just replaced my first complete shock failure but it happend at the same time I bent my chassis and strenthened front diff. Both needed to be completely replaced to it was quite big landing that caused the damage.

rancho would have to be the worst choice you could make. Put standard Monroe's or something like that before Rancho!!!!