Outer Limits 4x4 Board

has anyone done this

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,57063.0.html

Thats on my list of mods to de when i do the rear discs. I already have the mastercly and its a straight bolt on to the sierra booster. But like siad you need to make a new pushrod as the sierra one is too short.

Master cly is from a forester. cost me $40 from ebay

I'm aware of a car being built with the subaru M/C but it's not driving yet.

I've heard 2 bolt GQ cylinders fit too.

Steve.

hardest part with this kind of thing is making it legal... you'd need an engineers report plus you'd have to do brake tests etc all at your own expense...

Should you do the mod, and be in a car accident on road - your insurance is completely void and you're 100% liable for all costs (and worst case scenario go to jail for manslaughter).

Worth thinking about =)

i've used a few 2.0 litre vit cylinders and boosters and they are awesome. best of all they are legal as you don't have to hot-rod the components, just massage the firewall hole.

joeblow wrote:i've used a few 2.0 litre vit cylinders and boosters and they are awesome. best of all they are legal as you don't have to hot-rod the components, just massage the firewall hole.

Hey Joe, could you please elaborate a bit more on the "massaging" requirements?

what did you fit it to? an LJ / NT / WT?

Did the hard lines all line up? or was changing that setup need to?

Thanks,
Greg

Gwagensteve wrote:I'm aware of a car being built with the subaru M/C but it's not driving yet.

Now we have to wait and see if it is still in existence

greg wrote:

joeblow wrote:i've used a few 2.0 litre vit cylinders and boosters and they are awesome. best of all they are legal as you don't have to hot-rod the components, just massage the firewall hole.

Hey Joe, could you please elaborate a bit more on the "massaging" requirements?

what did you fit it to? an LJ / NT / WT?

Did the hard lines all line up? or was changing that setup need to?

Thanks,
Greg

Unsure if the 2L is the same but in my 86' lwb I use a Vit Estate booster and 7/8 MC, it all bolted up and as stated the hole in the firewall needed enlarging by around 1mm which I did with a die grinder and some patience. The hard lines did need some tweaking to get right. This now runs Hilux 106 callipers and Subaru calipers on 35 silverstones and passes the brake test using the NSW testing machine thingy.

the 2.0 litre is a little different in shape but is basically the same fit as above. the only major thing is moving the heater tap. but its worth it.

cj wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:I'm aware of a car being built with the subaru M/C but it's not driving yet.

Now we have to wait and see if it is still in existence

I read Steve's post in chit chat. Best of luck guys, can't imagine what it must be like.

There's a glimmer of hope at the moment but I won't believe it until I see it and that won't be for a while.

anyway - back to important stuff Cj has(had?) a 1 1/16" subaru cylinder, ventilated (and slotted) front discs and maching calipers from a 4 door Vit, solid rears and sierra rear calipers. All lines are braided.
It's a 1.0 litre so the brakes remain unboosted.

I'm very keen to see (and feel) what this stops like.

for reference - my DD is a 2007 STi WRX, meaning big Brembo brakes. It also uses a 1 1/16" cylinder.

It should be possilble to set up unboosted brakes that will adequately stop a sierra - hell, even the Maclaren F1 had unboosted brakes, as do most race cars. IMHO unboosted brakes have much more consistent feel off road.

My Sierra is disc front WT drum rear and is running a Baleno sedan cylinder, unboosted It's OK but not great.

Steve.

When setting my current brake setup I was copying what others had however I did a little googling (hot rod sites have heaps of info) and asking a mechanic who is into sprint cars about brake set ups, I found it rather interesting.

Things they factor is pedal ratio which is length of pedal and location of pivot point, are they boosted and if so size of booster, volume the MC puts out and total volume of all calipers added together. If the MC is too small for the callipers a long soft pedal will result, If the MC is too large the pedal will be very short an hard requiring a lot of force, and obviously the pedal ratio will play a large part in force required.

I found a site (lost now) which explained how to measure you pedal ratio, volumes of calipers and volume of MC taking into account not only diameter but stroke as well, a table then showed optimum ratios for boosted and non boosted set ups and took the guess work or trial and error out of brake set ups.

Of course you can do what I did and copy someone who has a set up that works

This is one of the best write ups I've found

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Brakes/

built4thrashing wrote:Master cly is from a forester. cost me $40 from ebay

Does anyone have any specifics about which forester these 1 1/16 bore master cylinders are coming from?

I'm finding that (as usual) wreckers can only operate from make, model and year... not part description or bore size.

thanks,
Greg

i have a 2.0 v6 vitara mater cyl on mine and all we had to do was screw the push rod in a little maybe 4 mil. the bore is a fair chunk bigger than standard. i run vitara estate calipers and disks front, and ford corsair calipers rear on my WT aswell

tanshi wrote:i have a 2.0 v6 vitara mater cyl on mine and all we had to do was screw the push rod in a little maybe 4 mil. the bore is a fair chunk bigger than standard. i run vitara estate calipers and disks front, and ford corsair calipers rear on my WT aswell

do you know what the bore is Tanshi? for some reason i recall that it is 1" or slightly less?

it was either 1 inch or one and 1/4 the hard lines are all the same except the vitara has two outputs for the front lines so i just blocked one of those off.

tanshi wrote:vitara has two outputs for the front lines so i just blocked one of those off.

you might find it would work better if you ran both the lines to the two front discs seperately - just by-pass the current 'splitter' that is mounted to the chassis for the front end brakes.

It almost stands on its nose now

Update:

I sourced a 2001 Forester Master Cylinder with ABS from a wrecker on the weekend.

The install went fairly smoothly. There was a bit of trickiness as i was taking measurements from two different sierra boosters (1985 and 1989) which turned out to be different. The 1985 version matched the push rod measurements detailed on pirate, the 1989 version needed an even longer pushrod (approx 20mm longer).

As a rule of thumb - if you remove the master cylinder and the pushrod comes out freely - it should match the pirate measurements. On the otherhand, if the pushrod is captured in the booster by plastic "fingers", then you will need to come up with your own measurements.

The master cylinder bolted up to either booster no problem. The hard line outputs are on the driver side (rear) and on top of the master cylinder at the front (front).

The rear could be picked up with the existing hardline (modifed), but for the front i stole some hardline off a WT rear diff i had sitting around as the existing hardline was too short.

I still need to bleed it up a bit more, but thus far the improvements are there. It is evident that it is throwing more fluid around by just how quickly you burn through the fluid when bleeding it.

The valving of the forester cylinder appears different. The rear brakes do not lock up under hard braking. I discussed with the gwagensteve who suggested that the forester MC would be setup for disc-disc rather than disc-drum so it was likely to not require the prop-valve.

Bolt in? apart from the booster rod?

so u need to use the pushrod from the 85 booster and the subi master/slave?

got pics? and also what discs is it setup on?

sounding good when i get the shitz with current setup.

yep - bolt in apart from the push-rod and bending up some hard line.

the 1985 pushrod comes out of the booster so it is easy to work with, whereas i wasn't able to get the 1989 pushrod out.

the forester MC would bolt up to either.

my friends car has sierra calipers and rotors all round.

sorry - no photos.

check out this thread...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=495302

it shows the pushrod being 68mm stock, and 82 modified. I think for the 1989 booster, it would need to be closer to 98mm (from memory)... it was basically 30mm longer.

don't forget to grab the wire and plug from the forester so you can get your brake fluid level warning light to work.

boner59 wrote:has anyone done this

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,57063.0.html

SO HAVE YOU DUN IT YET WOULD BE EASY

Anymore update on this?
The rta has asked that I match the hilux m/c bore size to operate the hilux brakes.
Ive found sierra m/c is 7/8" vit is 1"?? and the subaru is 1 1/16".
Anyone have specs on a hilux/4runner one?
Nik

We now have two cars running in the club with boosted forester 1 1/16 cylinders and they both report excellent brakes and proportioning with sierra calipers all round. (I think one of them might have vitara front calipers)

As I'm going to go sierra rear calipers very shortly with the subaru master I'll report back. However, I'm unboosted still.

Steve.

Thanks steve, was it as easy as they say?
Do you know how it compares to the hilux one size wise?
Nik

Im also running the Forester M/C, was a very easy install as they say.
I fitted it mainly as im about to fit LWB Vit calipers to the front, and my old M/C was leaking, and I coudlnt source a rekit for it.

I fitted my subaru m/c up yesterday, it was from a 96 outback.
From What Ive seen it should work it is the 1 1/16 bore and has an outlet at the rear on the d/s and on the front at the top.
I bleed the brakes then tested it. The pedal is great but the rears lock up before the front.
Could I have the hardlines back to front. Standard suzuki the rear hardline went to the front hole on the m/c and the front went to the rear. Is that correct?
Nik

I would expect the rear to lock up before the front as there is no weight over the rear and all weight is shifing forward...

meh just drive it..

Its scary when the rear overtakes the front on braking, and is also scary for the person behind to suddenly see headlights

And yes i have done this.

I have a mech valve in mine but still not enough bias. Mines 1200kg SWB